Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[mthuntress406]

What changes would you suggest?

Keep the current seasons as is
Pick your species is fine/pick your region is fine
No mule deer rut hunt for few years then reevaluate and give some LE permits if warranted
No doe tags in regions that are under objective (doing this in region 6 & 7 this year on public)
These are easier changes...and should be done and evaluated to see if they are working (region 4 and 5 made some great changes and really no one complained about not rut hunting for mule deer) Why not see how the changes that were implemented this year work before gutting everything?

Harder ones:
Break up the combo license for non residents
Roll the extra NR opportunities to come out of the cap (native, college, come home to hunt etc.)
Raise license fees for residents to cover difference having less non residents.

This proposal is just too much and again, has no science to back it working and will 100% not help with overcrowding especially during archery. August is just too hot and so is the beginning of September so most folks are going to just pack into that last few weeks of September. The number of folks participating in archery is also on the rise so it's just packing more folks into a shorter season.

 

[Schaaf]

How do you propose to keep the current seasons as is but not have a mule deer rut hunt?

 

[sscrano]

How do you propose to keep the current seasons as is but not have a mule deer rut hunt?

They could simply end all mule deer hunting two weeks or so before the close of the general season.

 

[Fire_9]

Keep the current seasons as is
Pick your species is fine/pick your region is fine
No mule deer rut hunt for few years then reevaluate and give some LE permits if warranted
No doe tags in regions that are under objective (doing this in region 6 & 7 this year on public)
These are easier changes...and should be done and evaluated to see if they are working (region 4 and 5 made some great changes and really no one complained about not rut hunting for mule deer) Why not see how the changes that were implemented this year work before gutting everything?

Harder ones:
Break up the combo license for non residents
Roll the extra NR opportunities to come out of the cap (native, college, come home to hunt etc.)
Raise license fees for residents to cover difference having less non residents.

This proposal is just too much and again, has no science to back it working and will 100% not help with overcrowding especially during archery. August is just too hot and so is the beginning of September so most folks are going to just pack into that last few weeks of September. The number of folks participating in archery is also on the rise so it's just packing more folks into a shorter season.

I can get on board with a lot of what you mentioned. I don't really agree that August and early september are 'too hot' though. There could definitely be some advantages to starting the season in August.

I think something to keep in mind is that this isn't just about archery hunters. This proposal was put together to where every group gives something up to make the overall group of seasons better. Or at least that was the intent. Because, just as you proved, if one group feels that they are giving up more than another, it's no good. Most of us are too worried about our piece of the pie to look at the overall objective.

 

[MTGomer]

Most of us are too worried about our piece of the pie to look at the overall objective.

 

[mthuntress406]

They could simply end all mule deer hunting two weeks or so before the close of the general season.

Exactly. They are doing it in some of Region 4. If you wanted to give MD hunters an extra week - open it dead week, but maybe having a shorter season for mule deer would encourage less people to pick MD and instead chose WT... which seems like a win for MD.

 

[mthuntress406]

I can get on board with a lot of what you mentioned. I don't really agree that August and early september are 'too hot' though. There could definitely be some advantages to starting the season in August.

I think something to keep in mind is that this isn't just about archery hunters. This proposal was put together to where every group gives something up to make the overall group of seasons better. Or at least that was the intent. Because, just as you proved, if one group feels that they are giving up more than another, it's no good. Most of us are too worried about our piece of the pie to look at the overall objective.

Bowhunters are by far giving up the most here, followed by the youth. There are way easier routes to get to your objective without taking "anyone's pie"

 

[BuckRut]

Bowhunters are by far giving up the most here, followed by the youth. There are way easier routes to get to your objective without taking "anyone's pie"

This is the attitude that will kill any progress with the Montana management because it is far to prevalent across the state.

 

[Fire_9]

Bowhunters are by far giving up the most here, followed by the youth. There are way easier routes to get to your objective without taking "anyone's pie"

As a fellow bowhunter I guess I just don't see it as a huge loss. Would it be more palatable if season started sept 1st and went into the first week of October?

 

[mthuntress406]

This is the attitude that will kill any progress with the Montana management because it is far to prevalent across the state.

Rifle hunters actually gain weeks with this proposal. If mule deer is what needs fixed (which I'm pretty sure most of us will agree does) then FIX MULE DEER SEASON. Not looking at the consequences of a proposal such as overcrowding IS NOT a very good strategy.

 

[mthuntress406]

The bowhunters aren't "piling mule deer" in their trucks.

 

[mthuntress406]

As a fellow bowhunter I guess I just don't see it as a huge loss. Would it be more palatable if season started sept 1st and went into the first week of October?

It would be more palatable to do Aug 25-first week of October. Again, shortening the season isn't going to be helpful for overcrowding.

 

[Gerald Martin]

They could simply end all mule deer hunting two weeks or so before the close of the general season.

That would put the close of mule deer season on Nov. 16 this year. That’s peak of the mule deer rut.

 

[bigsky2]

Keep the current seasons as is
Pick your species is fine/pick your region is fine
No mule deer rut hunt for few years then reevaluate and give some LE permits if warranted
No doe tags in regions that are under objective (doing this in region 6 & 7 this year on public)
These are easier changes...and should be done and evaluated to see if they are working (region 4 and 5 made some great changes and really no one complained about not rut hunting for mule deer) Why not see how the changes that were implemented this year work before gutting everything?

Harder ones:
Break up the combo license for non residents
Roll the extra NR opportunities to come out of the cap (native, college, come home to hunt etc.)
Raise license fees for residents to cover difference having less non residents.

This proposal is just too much and again, has no science to back it working and will 100% not help with overcrowding especially during archery. August is just too hot and so is the beginning of September so most folks are going to just pack into that last few weeks of September. The number of folks participating in archery is also on the rise so it's just packing more folks into a shorter season.

This proposal is a balance of improving things for the resource as well as considering what’s socially achievable. If it was entirely about the resource or entirely about trying to accommodate the desires of one user group, it would look totally different.

I have a hard time believing the outfitting community would ever get behind those NR native and Come Home to Hunt licenses being figured into the 17,000 NR cap. Those native Montanans coming back to hunt are not hunting with an outfitter.

I also think if you saw the difference in R license fees to cover the cost of eliminating some NR tag fees, you’d see that is not something that the average R hunter would be willing to accept.

 

[Montana Advocate]

There is no need to mess with elk season as it is currently set.

Youth hunt should stay the same.

Deer season should open the same Saturday as it historically has, but close on 11/10 or thereabouts. Similar to the north side of the CMR.

Pick your weapon and pick your region for general deer.

I believe these are conservative approaches that the majority of hunters can get behind, while addressing the concern over the state of our MD.

 

[rogerthat]

Rifle hunters actually gain weeks with this proposal. If mule deer is what needs fixed (which I'm pretty sure most of us will agree does) then FIX MULE DEER SEASON. Not looking at the consequences of a proposal such as overcrowding IS NOT a very good strategy.

The proposal will definitely reduce crowding during rifle season by spreading the pressure out over 2 months and requiring people to pick a region and deer species. I think you probably have a point on increasing crowding for archery season. That makes sense. I think the dates and timing could be shifted around some still following the general framework of the proposal to alleviate your concerns.

 

[MTGomer]

Bowhunters are by far giving up the most here, followed by the youth. There are way easier routes to get to your objective without taking "anyone's pie"

For the archery deer hunter, you’re also gaining access to vulnerable, patternable, and predictable velvet early season bucks, that depending on what date opener was in the past, had started to strip and disperse at the very beginning of season.
I would argue that access to vulnerable deer is being taken from rifle hunters and to a lesser extent redistributed to bowhunters. If a person is looking out for their own preferred weapon season’s interest, it is not the bow hunter that’s losing when it comes to deer.
I’ll take Aug 25 deer hunting over Oct 5 any day.

 

[BuzzH]

Bowhunters are by far giving up the most here, followed by the youth. There are way easier routes to get to your objective without taking "anyone's pie"

What's stopping a bowhunter from continuing to hunt elk in November, Mule Deer in October, or Whitetails in November?

Nothing I can see.

 

[mthuntress406]

There is no need to mess with elk season as it is currently set.

Youth hunt should stay the same.

Deer season should open the same Saturday as it historically has, but close on 11/10 or thereabouts. Similar to the north side of the CMR.

Pick your weapon and pick your region for general deer.

I believe these are conservative approaches that the majority of hunters can get behind, while addressing the concern over the state of our MD.

PERFECT.

 

[mthuntress406]

For the archery deer hunter, you’re also gaining access to vulnerable, patternable, and predictable velvet early season bucks, that depending on what date opener was in the past, had started to strip and disperse at the very beginning of season.
I would argue that access to vulnerable deer is being taken from rifle hunters and to a lesser extent redistributed to bowhunters. If a person is looking out for their own preferred weapon season’s interest, it is not the bow hunter that’s losing when it comes to deer.
I’ll take Aug 25 deer hunting over Oct 5 any day.

So this is something that "benefits" your style of hunting, I've also seen another guy in your group talk about patterned summer elk. Many archers are focused on elk and this proposal drastically changes elk hunting. It eliminates 3 weeks of bull hunting in Oct. when elk are at an all time high?

This proposal is a balance of improving things for the resource as well as considering what’s socially achievable. If it was entirely about the resource or entirely about trying to accommodate the desires of one user group, it would look totally different.

I have a hard time believing the outfitting community would ever get behind those NR native and Come Home to Hunt licenses being figured into the 17,000 NR cap. Those native Montanans coming back to hunt are not hunting with an outfitter.

I also think if you saw the difference in R license fees to cover the cost of eliminating some NR tag fees, you’d see that is not something that the average R hunter would be willing to accept.

I would argue most of the college kids, native NR and come home to hunt are not hiring an outfitter.