Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Ben Lamb]

I think u underestimate the hunting pressure on otc mt. In theory it's a good plan. No rut hunt. But disrupt elk in the process. Biggest question in mt maybe besides lack of mule deer on public land is alot of elk on private which causes alot of problems. Compound that with a ton of mule deer pressure before the public can harvest an elk. Leads too more elk on private. Less elk harvested. Blm fwp forest circus in a pickle.

Deer easy to kill in the rut. Yes October a little harder to kill a buck. But basically everyone be out in October trying to kill a big old mountain muley. 90 percent of them will die still. Like the 6.5 Creedmoor be a fad in mt to hunt muleys in mt. Won't be that hard. Still not management.

The elk issue is an important one, but if we're honest with ourselves, the pressure from Archery does a lot to put elk on private ahead of the current rifle season. This proposal splits that up by creating the October elk hunt valid on private land only as a way to create a pulse of pressure on private to bring elk back to public, rather than being chased for 11 weeks with only a 2 day reset.

 

[Ben Lamb]

For residents I think this is true but the nonresident side does concern me. Example being, currently If I draw a big game combo and don’t draw my permit I still keep my general deer tag even though I haven’t used it in nearly a decade. How many guys will keep their deer tag going forward or instead return it to be resold to a NR who will absolutely be deer hunting in October. This is one of several reasons the combo tag needs to go away and each species/quota managed independently.

NR's are more interested in hunting elk on the B10 than deer. That's why the B11 resell of the orphaned deer tags under the B10 is over the cap of the statutory B11's.

If almost 40% of NR's who pick up a B10 are sending the deer portion back, then it makes sense to have a split season for those who purchase a NR Deer combo, as well as those who get the elk combo and still want to chase whitetail as well as wapiti.

Eliminating the combo tag, again, means there is a massive response from most of the conservation groups about losing dedicated conservation funding. The agency will be against that as well, likely. It's not a hill worth dying on, IMO.

 

[rogerthat]

I think u underestimate the hunting pressure on otc mt. In theory it's a good plan. No rut hunt. But disrupt elk in the process. Biggest question in mt maybe besides lack of mule deer on public land is alot of elk on private which causes alot of problems. Compound that with a ton of mule deer pressure before the public can harvest an elk. Leads too more elk on private. Less elk harvested. Blm fwp forest circus in a pickle.

Deer easy to kill in the rut. Yes October a little harder to kill a buck. But basically everyone be out in October trying to kill a big old mountain muley. 90 percent of them will die still. Like the 6.5 Creedmoor be a fad in mt to hunt muleys in mt. Won't be that hard. Still not management.

Have you actually tried to kill a big old mountain muley in October? I will wager a guess you haven’t by your comments. If so, post up these big old “stupid” october bucks you have slain as proof to how easy it is. My experience is I have a hell of a time even finding the big old bucks even when I scouted them and know they are right there. I consider myself an above average hunter but I’m not a god I guess

 

[Shed God]

Sorry Ben lamb, this hill is worth dying on. The wildlife are adjusted to the current seasons. Archery does effect elk patterns. But with 200 k out there with boom sticks effects it a hell of alot more.

Cow hunts regardless of time of yr on private. The elk take it. Move 100 to 300 yards away. Seen it time in and time again. Look at the matador ranch. Dillon mt. Seen them wipe out herds. To the point were they shooting calf bulls by mistake because they had the biggest body. They were the only ones left yearlings. Sponsored by fwp. Happens everywhere.

Non residents are sending the deer tag back because they are hunting otc public land and know montana sucks.

Elimating the combo tag for non resident means the public non resident will hunt elk for the most part and outfitters get there clients claiming the mule deer tags.

 

[Shed God]

Rogerthat I have never killed a mule deer. Hunted all my life. Basically for elk. It's montana stupid. Passed up a alot to a few 150s 160s. Had an le tag ate it. Tried for 180. Never seen one. 150s 160s not alot of them around since I was in high school.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Have you actually tried to kill a big old mountain muley in October? I will wager a guess you haven’t by your comments. If so, post up these big old “stupid” october bucks you have slain as proof to how easy it is. My experience is I have a hell of a time even finding the big old bucks even when I scouted them and know they are right there. I consider myself an above average hunter but I’m not a god I guess

The biggest opponents to a big paradigm shift in MT deer/elk management are folks who have limited/contained experience with hunting around Montana or elsewhere.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I tried not to say stupid and selfish, but it was almost included.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Over 200? You must have been in hog heaven.

Yep ... also cross-eyed til 36.

 

[Shed God]

Obviously idk anything. I should be quiet

 

[Ben Lamb]

Sorry Ben lamb, this hill is worth dying on. The wildlife are adjusted to the current seasons. Archery does effect elk patterns. But with 200 k out there with boom sticks effects it a hell of alot more.

Cow hunts regardless of time of yr on private. The elk take it. Move 100 to 300 yards away. Seen it time in and time again. Look at the matador ranch. Dillon mt. Seen them wipe out herds. To the point were they shooting calf bulls by mistake because they had the biggest body. They were the only ones left yearlings. Sponsored by fwp. Happens everywhere.

Non residents are sending the deer tag back because they are hunting otc public land and know montana sucks.

Elimating the combo tag for non resident means the public non resident will hunt elk for the most part and outfitters get there clients claiming the mule deer tags.

The deer licenses that get turned in get resold.

Eliminating the combo tag means legislation, and it won't pass.

Happy to disagree on the rest and leave it at that.

 

[Shed God]

Idk a $*)Q!#@$ thing

 

[rogerthat]

Obviously idk anything. I should be quiet

I think you’re making plenty of assumptions that I disagree with and would argue are just flat wrong.

I have hunted October deer seadons in other states so I know how tough the hunting is.

In these other states the elk don’t get moved like your stating by the deer hunters when the seadons aren’t concurrent.

I only have so much leave. I will have to decide when to use it. If I don’t have a tag for every thing that moves that means I won’t opportunity harvest mule deer in November when I am elk hunting.

These are the main points you just flat have wrong imo.

 

[Shed God]

Do your October mule deer hunt. Idk a $*)Q!#@$ thing. Never killed a muley. Found some great sheds in LE units. My dad brothers familu have killed 180 200 inch muleys. But do oct. I need to get 120 yards archery elk hunting

 

[The Hedgehog]

 

[cgasner1]

Do your October mule deer hunt. Idk a $*)Q!#@$ thing. Never killed a muley. Found some great sheds in LE units. My dad brothers familu have killed 180 200 inch muleys. But do oct. I need to get 120 yards archery elk hunting

I can’t understand what your writing and I have some chopped up form of writing myself

 

[Shed God]

U guys too cool for me. It's already a done thing. October mule deer hunt. So that means all the elk over objective numbers and bullshit from that out the window.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Idk a $*)Q!#@$ thing

I don’t think anyone is going to disagree that the best biological approach to allocating deer tags is that a certain number of tags are issued based on numbers of deer, hunter success, and range conditions. That would be some form of LE.

However, LE across the state would mean that some people who don’t draw a LE tag will not be allowed to hunt each season. That reality has been clearly communicated to be unacceptable by FWP and Montana hunters who view general hunting opportunities to be something they are unwilling to give up. Until the hierarchy of values change socially to accept loss of general hunting opportunities in preference of LE, LE will not be allowed to be implemented.

The fact that we recognize and accept the social parameters of what MT hunters will support and are working within those parameters gives us all a better chance to see the quality of hunting improve. Pie in the sky “It should be this way” policies that stand no chance of being implemented won’t do diddly squat to improve current conditions because current policies won’t be changed.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I don’t think anyone is going to disagree that the best biological approach to allocating deer tags is that a certain number of tags are issued based on numbers of deer, hunter success, and range conditions. That would be some form of LE.

However, LE across the state would mean that some people who don’t draw a LE tag will not be allowed to hunt each season. That reality has been clearly communicated to be unacceptable by FWP and Montana hunters who view general hunting opportunities to be something they are unwilling to give up. Until the hierarchy of values change socially to accept loss of general hunting opportunities in preference of LE, LE will not be allowed to be implemented.

The fact that we recognize and accept the social parameters of what MT hunters will support and are working within those parameters gives us all a better chance to see the quality of hunting improve. Pie in the sky “It should be this way” policies that stand no chance of being implemented won’t do diddly squat to improve current conditions because current policies won’t be changed.

I can tell you are getting well versed in defending this. Thanks for your efforts - sure it can be exhausting.

 

[FREAK]

Do your October mule deer hunt. Idk a $*)Q!#@$ thing. Never killed a muley. Found some great sheds in LE units. My dad brothers familu have killed 180 200 inch muleys. But do oct. I need to get 120 yards archery elk hunting

Wyoming sept 23, 3 bulls in archery range, 1 day of hunting. Bugling like crazy on public land.

The general rifle deer dates for that unit were sept 15-30. Saw a couple guys hunting deer with rifles. Saw 3 MD bucks bigger than anything I’ve seen in Montana in the last decade hunting hard through the rut.

I believe these guys have a solid plan. Tough to accept things the way they are now when you get a taste of what it could be like.

 

[cgasner1]

I can tell you are getting well versed in defending this. Thanks for your efforts - sure it can be exhausting.

We believe in it. That’s the difference all of us 100% believe this is the best way forward