Montana deer management

[The Hedgehog]

I do think we need opportunity in order to get younger kids into the sport, even adult onset hunters. The Montana heritage of kids shooting an immature deer, 7 weeks of general tag hunting, etc are tough things to take away. You're messing with people's history and a lot of memories.

This is what is so frustrating. How much damn "opportunity" does everyone need? Is a "memory" of a whitetail doe hunt with Dad, any less of a memory of a 2 point mule deer hunt killed with your college roommates? It's long past time of "that's the way we've always done it "heritage" crap. I've been hunting deer in MT every year for 38 years and it's completely in the toilet now because of so much resistance to REAL CHANGE.

 

[huntin24/7]

I have a hard time with the fact that most every other state with mule deer has much more stringent season structure or tag allocation, but when these ideas get brought up about changing things in montana, its a big problem. How is 3 weeks at any time of the fall not long enough to kill a deer? I grew up in ND with a 16 day season. I hunted my but off for the 5-6 days off I had every season between school, college, and work and never felt like I didn't have opportunity, but I regularly hear how 3 full weeks isn't even enough opportunity. We could still greatly improve herd health and age structure by changing season length and timing while still allowing a buck tag every year. Sounds like good opportunity to me.

 

[sschultz]

In MT each district should be managed specifically for that district. Like that'll ever happen

If I were boss, general season areas would be September for archery season. Rifle would be Oct 1-20. Zero buck hunting after that, antlerless hunting on private land only all through Nov-Dec.

I think that's the best idea I've heard but I wonder how many hunters would go someplace else. But I suspect Montana places more value on the economic value of the herd than the health and quality.

 

[Ben Lamb]

This is what is so frustrating. How much damn "opportunity" does everyone need? Is a "memory" of a whitetail doe hunt with Dad, any less of a memory of a 2 point mule deer hunt killed with your college roommates? It's long past time of "that's the way we've always done it "heritage" crap. I've been hunting deer in MT every year for 38 years and it's completely in the toilet now because of so much resistance to REAL CHANGE.

I don't disagree, but let's be honest: We're talking about taking something that many people value in order to give value to others. In order to affect real change, you have to recognize their legitimate interests and work with that in order to achieve an outcome that's mutually beneficial. The concept of managing for specific units, for example, does this. So does youth hunts, 3 week seasons, etc. You can provide a mountain of opportunity if you massage each district, but then you'll also be adding 10 pages to the regs, in an era where people are complaining about how complicated they are, and the agency is responding by try to reduce that perceived complication.

 

[Songdog3060]

I've read a lot of good points and valid opinions here and I think everyone, in every state gets down in the mouth about their "FWP", " DNR" et. al.
The State of Montana has nothing on Michigan.
Michigan sells 400,000 deer license anually with virtually unlimited Doe permits (all whitetail). Every 10ac piece of private has 2 guys hunting on it! SO please keep some perspective, guys, Montana could be alot worse.

See you in a couple weeks.

 

[MTGomer]

I've read a lot of good points and valid opinions here and I think everyone, in every state gets down in the mouth about their "FWP", " DNR" et. al.
The State of Montana has nothing on Michigan.
Michigan sells 400,000 deer license anually with virtually unlimited Doe permits (all whitetail). Every 10ac piece of private has 2 guys hunting on it! SO please keep some perspective, guys, Montana could be alot worse.

See you in a couple weeks.

Short of putting a bounty on mule deer or banning coyote hunting and trapping there’s not much Montana could do to be worse for mule deer.

 

[MTGomer]

This is indefensible.

 

[The Hedgehog]

You can provide a mountain of opportunity if you massage each district, but then you'll also be adding 10 pages to the regs, in an era where people are complaining about how complicated they are, and the agency is responding by try to reduce that perceived complication.

At some point "providing a mountain of opportunity" could be somewhere lower on the rung of priorities, statewide in MT, for mule deer. Regs don't have to be complicated. Look to other states such as Wyoming or Idaho on how to make it work. Reinventing the wheel is not necessary.

 

[Ben Lamb]

At some point "providing a mountain of opportunity" could be somewhere lower on the rung of priorities, statewide in MT, for mule deer. Regs don't have to be complicated. Look to other states such as Wyoming or Idaho on how to make it work. Reinventing the wheel is not necessary.

You've met FWP, right?

 

[The Hedgehog]

This is indefensible.


View attachment 88342

How else can they combat CWD?

 

[Songdog3060]

I see, the unlimited"B" in all region 7. After the winter they had, I see your frustration. At least (bare with me), at least in Montana you do not have to purchase a license to shoot Coyotes. IN Michigan its a furbarer license around $25.00

Having a little discipline on the bucks we shoot would go along way to getting them to 5 or 6 years old. Changing the hunting culture is tough to do we have began to implement manditory antler point restrictions on our deer in certain hunting areas. It is always a very hot topic and highly contested but for us(Michigan) its the only way we think we can change the hunting culture. Here a deer's first set of antlers is a death sentence.
TO me: this is indefensible .
However I recognize eastern whitetails are not under the same decline as Muleys. Im sensitive to that. I will nit hang my NR tag on a fork horn Muley and I plan to shoot a couple Misssouri breaks coyotes as well. The that said Id still trade Montana for Michigan. Good luck everyone.

 

[Irrelevant]

You can provide a mountain of opportunity if you massage each district, but then you'll also be adding 10 pages to the regs, in an era where people are complaining about how complicated they are, and the agency is responding by try to reduce that perceived complication.

WA has gone down this path of micro managing each small unit to provide the most opportunity/quality through a combination of general seasons (usually 1-2 weeks long) plus a plethora of "special permits", many of which aren't that special. Our regs are novel in length and extremely difficult for people not already familiar to interpret. I've been hunting for 20 years and I still find new rules almost every year that I wasn't aware of. WA has a real problem recruiting new hunters because of how daunting our regs are. If I were Montana I would keep it simple and reduce overall opportunity for bucks and increase private land opportunity for does.

 

[mtmiller]

Good conversation.

 

[JLS]

WA has gone down this path of micro managing each small unit to provide the most opportunity/quality through a combination of general seasons (usually 1-2 weeks long) plus a plethora of "special permits", many of which aren't that special. Our regs are novel in length and extremely difficult for people not already familiar to interpret. I've been hunting for 20 years and I still find new rules almost every year that I wasn't aware of. WA has a real problem recruiting new hunters because of how daunting our regs are. If I were Montana I would keep it simple and reduce overall opportunity for bucks and increase private land opportunity for does.

A great portion of the complexity is because of the choose your weapon approach. If you did away with that, and limited hunt units/regions like Wyoming does, the complexity would be greatly reduced. Washington's issues are largely a product of trying to make everyone think they have all sorts of opportunity without really providing it.

 

[TrumpkinTheDwarf]

If I were boss, the muzzy season would be just as long as the rifle season, and take place at the same time. In 1997 I shot an antelope with a muzzleloader at 240 yards. They are a rifle, single shot, period.

Would you still say that if it was open sites, flintlock/sidelock, patched round ball only?

I always thought the original purpose of archery seasons/muzzleloaders was to reduce the success rates while allowing the pursuit. Now with compounds sitting at 79% let-off, boasting 7 pin sights, two foot stabilizers, thumb releases, multiple levels on the sight housing, fall away rests, and mechanical broadheads guys are shooting animals at 80 yards on a regular basis. That isn't exactly in the spirit of making the hunt more challenging.

Why not make the rut hunt a total primitive season? longbows/recurves/flintlocks only.

 

[Nick87]

In MT each district should be managed specifically for that district. Like that'll ever happen

If I were boss, general season areas would be September for archery season. Rifle would be Oct 1-20. Zero buck hunting after that, antlerless hunting on private land only all through Nov-Dec.

Sounds a lot like wyoming, that would make too much sense to do it that way I guess.

 

[Nick87]

Entirely different ball of wax but I feel for you guys who had great local deer hunting at one time and now it's in the toilet. 15 to 20 years ago you had to draw a firearm season tag here, and you only got one for 7 total days of hunting broken into two long weekends. Now you can buy as many as you want at Wal-Mart. Also we have 14 days total to hunt 17 if you get a muzzleloader tag I think. Deer numbers are probly 25% of what they once were. Yet there's always some jackwagon who will buy and fill as many as he can so he can tell you how many tags he filled this year. All in the name of cwd of course, because we don't want disease to kill off all the deer so we should shoot as many as we can. It's suckening to watch something like that happen year after year regardless what state your hunting in.

 

[noisy]

I think FWP should do exactly what they are doing with cow elk in some areas...implement a six month shoulder season with an antlerless deer tag valid only on private lands. My experience so far with the elk shoulder seasons is that a lot of ranches are more open to allowing access after their outfitted hunters have gone home. And dropping the requirement that these ranches participate in the Block Management program also has been key.

 

[8andcounting]

I think FWP should do exactly what they are doing with cow elk in some areas...implement a six month shoulder season with an antlerless deer tag valid only on private lands. My experience so far with the elk shoulder seasons is that a lot of ranches are more open to allowing access after their outfitted hunters have gone home. And dropping the requirement that these ranches participate in the Block Management program also has been key.

So kill more does ??? Why !?

 

[timmy]

And we are beating the dead horse again. Montana has a problem everyone can see it even the fwp they just wont admit it. They are going to use cwd to justify the current management and when the positive cwd deer start coming in it’s only going to get worse.