Montana Deer Management- If I were King for a day.

[rogerthat]

This last season I've been able to hunt with and discuss Montana's deer management with a bunch of different hunters, many from this site. probably 90% of the hunters I’ve spoken to have agreed something needs changed with our deer season structure, and the course we’re on with our current seasons isn’t sustainable. Using everyone’s input, I've been juggling this season structure in my head for a while, and needed to get it put out there somewhere.

First off, every unit in the state will be given a limited or general designation for both whitetail and mule deer. I think a lot of work went in to these unit designations with the last season setting process, so to start with they will hold general or limited entry designation from 2022 regulations.

Examples-

HD 455 is limited entry for both whitetail and mule deer. It would receive limited entry designation for both species.

HD 270 is limited entry for mule deer, general for whitetail. It would receive limited entry designation for mule deer, and general designation for whitetail.

HD 704 is general for whitetail and mule deer. It would receive general designation for both species.



Under my proposal, there will be five antlered deer seasons. The catch is, that each hunter must choose ONE season per year. If they choose to apply for a limited entry hunt, they will forego being able to participate in an antlered general season for that year. Same applies if they buy a general season tag, they will not be allowed to apply for a limited entry tag in the same year. Bonus point system will stay in place, and you will not lose points by participating in a general season.

Limited entry deadline will remain March 15. If you apply for a limited entry hunt before that deadline, you lose your rights to a general tag. If you miss that deadline, you will be able to buy one of the three general season tags at any point of that year.




GENERAL SEASON OPTIONS-

General deer archery- September 1-20

Statewide. Tag is good in any unit with “General” designation for either species buck.



General Mule deer rifle- October 15-31

Region Specific, Hunter must designate which region they hunt at time of tag purchase. Hunter can hunt any general unit within that region for mule deer bucks during season dates.



General whitetail- November 1-30

Region Specific, Hunter must designate which region they hunt at time of purchase. Hunter can hunt any general unit within that region for whitetail bucks during season dates.



LIMITED ENTRY OPTIONS-

Unit-Specific Limited Entry

Archery- September 1-20

Rifle- November 1-30

The idea of this hunt would be to protect our current limited entry units like 270, 300, etc. Other than season dates shifting slightly, management within these units will remain largely the same as in the past.


Limited Entry Mule Deer- Regional

November 1-30

Every General deer unit will fall into the category of one of these region wide tags. This will be a limited entry tag, where if you draw you can hunt any general unit within the applied region for the month of November with a rifle for mule deer. Tag numbers will be very low and based off historical mule deer harvest within that region. ~2.5% of traditional harvest.

Examples-

Region 7 has a recent average of roughly 10,000 mule deer bucks harvested. 2.5% of that would equal 250 of these permits in Region 7.

Region 1 has a recent average of roughly 900 mule deer bucks harvested. 2.5% of that would equal 22 of these permits in Region 1.



ANTLERLESS

September 20-30

All antlerless deer harvest will take place in this short September season. All antlerless permits will be independent of antlered permits, and will be for a specific HD only, no region wide antlerless permits. Permit numbers will be decided by regional bios, with an encouragement to designate these permits for private land only. There needs to be an understanding on these tags that we’re currently taking too many mule deer does off the public land, and this course needs changed.



Conclusion:

I've put a lot of thought in to this structure, trying to come up with a compromise of providing opportunity while still making a meaningful enough change to give our deer hunting a chance to be great again. This proposal will mostly take general mule deer hunting out of the rut, although I have many times watched mule deer bucks chasing does the last few days of October.

If you're a meat hunter you can still buy a buck tag every year for either species.

If you value hunting over Thanksgiving break higher than anything else, you can still buy a general whitetail tag.

If you value quality in experience over hunting every year, you can still apply for a limited entry tag. Drawing odds on those tags should also increase dramatically by making hunters choose between general and limited entry each year.

So that's my proposal. I know FWP would never even consider a structure like this, but it's worth the discussion I think. Shoot holes in the plan, tell me why it won't work, etc.

Excellent proposal Randy. I would support it completely

 

[brocksw]

I’m not speaking to an old dry doe. I’m speaking to a barren one. And yes, there are reasons a fawn might not be with mom. Earlier in the fall they are more likely to be in close proximity IME.

"old dry doe", "barren doe".... same thing...cannot produce offspring.

No way to tell just by looking at them? At least not to my knowledge? No one's going to ask either, it will be "get out and shoot", regardless of if a fawn is there or not.

 

[TheJason]

old dry doe", "barren doe".... same thing...cannot produce offspring.

No, there is a difference between cannot and did not this year. However, this is no longer germane to the conversation.

 

[Drake4]

Isn't the idea here to spread the pressure out between the seasons? Who is buying that archery tag? I think you'd need to add a late season option to get any decent amount of hunters to pick it.

I know a lot of guys that would go for the archery tag.

 

[Sytes]

I dig the principle approach to revamping a broken system with a logical print.

IMO,

I'm not a fan of LE drawings void the general tag concept. To avoid, "Have your cake and eat it too", if drawn, the only tag a person holds is the LE. Not a LE and General and that seems to be used currently based on my limited drawn experience, the permit specifies no permissible hunting of Mule Deer outside the LE defined area.
I understand the basis is reduced draw entries if loss of general tag though I am much more supportive of Region selection, down to District, as a good means to collect data and/for the purpose to regulate future pressure, for general tags.
Include the selection of archery or rifle to further define drawing odds and pressure.

I'm not a fan of 2nd and 3rd entries that don't effect points. Either a person places points for a 1st, 2nd, and (or) 3rd or 1st only. Eliminate 2nd and 3rd entirely or make points apply to any of the 1-3 selected drawings and make each drawing the same point based odds. If any LE is drawn, points are used.

Limit deer rut hunting to LE drawing regardless the location. You draw for your Region / district. Again for data collection to regulate future pressure.

Include a Montana traditional means of fair chase pulled from a single week from the first or last week of archery or first week of rifle.

/two cents

 

[brocksw]

No, there is a difference between cannot and did not this year. However, this is no longer germane to the conversation.

Pick out the barren doe. Now pick out the the "old dry doe". Good luck.
Montanan's will shoot first and talk about whether or not it was a barren doe on the way back to camp...with 7 does in the back of their pickup.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Interesting statement , didn’t you post on another site yesterday stating you just chuckle when you hear the complaint residents are making about pressure?

I made a statement that was relating to comparing hunting pressure in the east to hunting in the west in regard to hunting pressure. Which you're spinning a bit to throw in my face. But that's ok. I get your point.

 

[brockel]

Pick out the barren doe. Now pick out the the "old dry doe". Good luck.
Montanan's will shoot first and talk about whether or not it was a barren doe on the way back to camp...with 7 does in the back of their pickup.
View attachment 255056

Don’t you know everyone that shoots a doe shoots a dry one.

 

[brocksw]

Don’t you know everyone that shoots a doe shoots a dry one.

That would be a sweet super power, that's for sure. Honestly, I really wish there was a way to identify an old doe on the hoof. I find it extremely fascinating to hear about teenage MD does. What an incredible life. 10, 12, 14+ years on the Northern prairie as a cervid. The number of fawns they've reared, the winters, the droughts, hunting seasons, predation....Wow, that is impressive to think about.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe sterile (barren) does account for less than 1% of most populations.

 

[Nameless Range]

Isn't the idea here to spread the pressure out between the seasons? Who is buying that archery tag? I think you'd need to add a late season option to get any decent amount of hunters to pick it.

This is why I wonder if the general archery and the general rifle deer opportunity could be merged. Most folks who would wanna limit themselves to bowhunting deer are gonna just dedicate themselves to bowhunting elk during that time, and pick the general rifle or whitetail opportunities so that their season wouldn't be so truncated. It's hard for me to imagine the person who would choose the archery option. It would also simplify the proposal a bit.

 

[rogerthat]

Don’t you know everyone that shoots a doe shoots a dry one.

Doe = old dry doe
Buck = old warrior troll buck #selective

That’s how it’s done on the gram. That’s what I have learned this year about deer hunting’

 

[The Hedgehog]

There’d be far less whacking and stacking if the deer and elk had different (rifle especially) seasons.

 

[TheJason]

There’d be far less whacking and stacking if the deer and elk had different (rifle especially) seasons.

This. A lot of deer die as victims of opportunity during an elk hunt.

 

[huntin24/7]

@Randy11,
Thanks for that. Well thought out and lined up very similarly to ideas I’ve had in mind and supported. I particularly like how you included separate whitetail and mule deer tags and seasons. Lots of different options in there that would allow for hunting opportunity as well as options that would encourage better age structure. Imagine how things could improve if the majority of hunters were willing to sacrifice a little bit of what they personally want for the greater good.

 

[Irrelevant]

I personally know a lot of people that enjoy archery hunting deer in September.

I'd much rather have the sept dates for archery then late season personally.

I know a lot of guys that would go for the archery tag.

Huh, I guess I don't know anyone that actively hunts the Sept season, and we have to pick a weapon type here in WA, everyone waits for the late season. You get the benefit of high densities on winter range, snow/snow camo (invisibility cloak), and tracking snow. But maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

What is to be gained by declaring one's region?

I would like to think this would also cause hunters to care about their own backyard a little bit more instead of bouncing around elsewhere. This might be wishful thinking though. If hunters were forced to pick a region, maybe they would be more likely to advocate for better management (habitat improvements) of the region since that's where they would have to spend their time.

I do like Randy's explanation of valuable data collection. Something that is very much needed.

 

[Hem]

Meanwhile F & G's main concern is simplyfing that which we have.

 

[SAJ-99]

Pick out the barren doe. Now pick out the the "old dry doe". Good luck.
Montanan's will shoot first and talk about whether or not it was a barren doe on the way back to camp...with 7 does in the back of their pickup.
View attachment 255056

They would shoot the one with the collar so the gubmint can't track 'em.

 

[rogerthat]

Jump on zoom for the region 7 meeting at 3 pm. I’m expecting a strong defense of the status quo and an effort to “teach” us why this mule deer management is the best in the west

 

[EYJONAS!]

Jump on zoom for the region 7 meeting at 3 pm. I’m expecting a strong defense of the status quo and an effort to “teach” us why this mule deer management is the best in the west

Yeah well any "support" or "clarification" on why they do what they do from a FWP employee or bio should get an automatic kick right to the bag.

Cause that's exactly what the entire mule deer population in the state has been getting for 40 years.