Montana and Tik Tok

[Sytes]

You really think the Chinese have more influence over the American electorate via TikTok than, say, the Russinas do via Facebook?

Hmmm...

Hah! You think it's just Russians use of FB simply for election tampering??? Hah!

Yep, Chinese operations vested their interest and director seat for your birthday cards.

Carry on.

Side note: As clear, I agree with Ben Long, as my fancy thumbs up identifies...

 

[Carl]

I don't typically speak up on issues that aren't firearms related, but I do have a stance I'll share on this one.

When it comes to tech and the influence of tech, one of the voices I appreciate for providing signal above the noise is Naval Ravikant. He stated a while back (a while in tech years): "The most powerful people in the world today are the people writing the algorithms for Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram because they are controlling the spread of information. They are programming the culture."

This resonates with me, it seems self evident to me that you can adjust what people think if you have enough control over what media they consume, and whoever controls the algorithms on social media controls what a large percentage of us see.

Tik Toc is the most popular social media platform for youth in America.

It seems self evident (at least to me), that China does not have our national interest in mind when coding the algorithm of the most popular platform that our children consume content from.

Per the above, I personally support the country putting restrictions on Tik Toc. I think Montana specifically banning it (and some of the language that could potentially stop the usage of VPN’s) is politicians doing politician things, for attention and not results.

The surveillance portion isn’t awesome, but is maybe 10% as concerning to me as their ability to direct the culture of our younger generations.

 

[Shangobango]

Also apparently super addictive for kids, creates more anxiety etc. one article I saw involved the author setting up a fake kid profile and doing some particular searches.

Those searches that set the algorithm and the user then got a lot of vids in their feed on eating disorders, and if I recall, maybe depression or suicide.

Edit: from the article

“Last August, researchers set up eight TikTok accounts to look like they belonged to 13-year-olds in the U.S., the U.K., Canada and Australia. For 30 minutes, researchers behind the accounts paused briefly on any videos the platform’s For You page showed them about body image and mental health, and tapped the heart to like them.

TikTok almost immediately recommended videos about suicide and eating disorders, the researchers said. Videos about body image and mental health popped up on the accounts’ For You pages every 39 seconds, they added.

After the researchers published their findings, many of the videos they flagged disappeared from TikTok. Many of the accounts that posted the material remain. Those accounts include other videos that promote restrictive diets and discuss self-harm and suicide.”

What they fail to mention there is that many of those videos that were ABOUT suicide and eating disorders were actually about awareness and support networks dealing with those issues trying and were trying to provide resources for people in order to prevent those things.

Don’t take that as a defense of Tik Tok though. If I was the king of the world the internet would probably be dismantled in it’s entirety lol.

 

[SAJ-99]

The surveillance portion isn’t awesome, but is maybe 10% as concerning to me as their ability to direct the culture of our younger generations.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post, but it seems our concern is that China might have more influence over a younger generation’s behavior through Tik Tok than parents do through parenting.

 

[BuzzH]

I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post, but it seems our concern is that China might have more influence over a younger generation’s behavior through Tik Tok than parents do through parenting.

Correct, and educated citizens cut right through the crap. Problem is, the average American reads and comprehends at a 7th-8th grade level.

That's what makes tiktok, fakebook, and instagram successful. The average person simply isn't smart enough to do research beyond what they "read" on social media. How many people do you think try to fact check anything they "read" on SM? Research the author? Or even apply friggin' common sense?

I took an advanced writing course in college, the professor came right out and said it. For mass publications, write at about the 6th grade level or the average reader won't understand what you're trying to convey.

A couple years ago I took a two day training on scientific writing for the average reader for my job. Same thing, write like you're trying to get 6th-8th graders to understand your science.

Trust me, the politicians understand this and why they really don't care all that much about education. If they did, college wouldn't be cost prohibitive. They learned long ago, its much easier to control a less educated public...and those controlling SM definitely understand who they can manipulate.

 

[Carl]

I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post, but it seems our concern is that China might have more influence over a younger generation’s behavior through Tik Tok than parents do through parenting.

One hundred percent, when it comes to my kids our your kids, the responsibility clearly lies with us.

When it comes to our youths culture being steered to a degree by a country that definitely considers us adversarial, I’ll remain opposed. I personally think Tik Tok is one of China’s more effective weapons when it comes to their previously stated aim of surpassing us in global influence.

I also still think Montana’s legistature isn’t the place to do this, but I do appreciate the direction and think it should be addressed nationally. And I’m a small government/fewer rules guy on the whole.

 

[BuzzH]

Dangit Buzz, you've been listening to too many Biden speeches! That "F" word is getting worn out, and is inappropriately used in a way that's not intellectually honest.

Is it "fascist" for a government to secretly censor people on twitter, who have opinions that the government disagrees with?

When that whole twitter censorship allegations broke, my much more "liberal" friends first said, no, that never happened. Then when more allegations came out it was, well, it's not a 1A violation because twitter is private company they can do what they want. Then when it was established the government was involved, my friends' response was, well no one reads twitter anyway. Geez.

Then you have hearings in which one party demands that two reporters (both Democrats, self-described liberals at least one of whom voted for Biden) give up their sources? That's not ok, regardless of which "side" is demanding such info.

"In his book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, Jason Stanley defined fascism as "a cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of humiliation brought on by supposed communists, Marxists and minorities and immigrants who are supposedly posing a threat to the character and the history of a nation." and that "The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors."

Sound familiar? Sure does to me and its spot on with a certain dudes political rallies.

Still think the word gets thrown around too much?

Carry on...

 

[BRI]

It's government overreach when one party does it. But not when the other party does it?

Ok....got it

 

[more_cowbell]

"In his book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, Jason Stanley defined fascism as "a cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of humiliation brought on by supposed communists, Marxists and minorities and immigrants who are supposedly posing a threat to the character and the history of a nation." and that "The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors."

Sound familiar? Sure does to me and its spot on with a certain dudes political rallies.

Still think the word gets thrown around too much?

Carry on...

Yes buzz, it is an overused and misused word. A lazy way to label anyone who disagrees with a particular point of view. Which is ironic—“agree with me or else” is a weak, bush league argument.

Read the Book “Hitler and Stalin parallel lives”, or take a few modern Europe history courses. Look at the similarities between those two personalities and systems they advocated.

Carry on.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes buzz, it is an overused and misused word. A lazy way to label anyone who disagrees with a particular point of view. Which is ironic—“agree with me or else” is a weak, bush league argument.

Read the Book “Hitler and Stalin parallel lives”, or take a few modern Europe history courses. Look at the similarities between those two personalities and systems they advocated.

Carry on.

Disagree...you're blind if you don't see what's going on.

 

[Schaaf]

Buy a man eat fish, he day, teach fish man, to a lifetime.

 

[more_cowbell]

Disagree...you're blind if you don't see what's going on.

I agree there's a lot of head in the sand shenanigans going on

 

[pyrotechnic]

Just like on almost every issue facing our country today, the only tangible results this "solution" produces is soundbites and a political "we did something".

Limiting China's influence on our soil will require a much more nuanced approach than banning an app. The amount of power wielded by social media algorithms is terrifying and I'd like to minimize the effectiveness with which foreign actors (and domestic ones) can wield it. I think that the way they went about this is the equivalent of tilting at a digital windmill.

 

[Sytes]

Buy a man eat fish, he day, teach fish man, to a lifetime.

That's must be the most Yodafied quote eva!!

 

[Shangobango]

"In his book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, Jason Stanley defined fascism as "a cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of humiliation brought on by supposed communists, Marxists and minorities and immigrants who are supposedly posing a threat to the character and the history of a nation." and that "The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors."

Sound familiar? Sure does to me and its spot on with a certain dudes political rallies.

Still think the word gets thrown around too much?

Carry on...

I am going to write a book and define trees as as animals...

 

[Shangobango]

I am going to write a book and define trees as as animals...

From Wiki:

In his book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, Jason Stanley defined fascism as "a cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of humiliation brought on by supposed communists, Marxists and minorities and immigrants who are supposedly posing a threat to the character and the history of a nation." and that "The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors." Stanley says recent global events as of 2020, including the COVID-19 pandemic and the 2020–2022 United States racial unrest, have substantiated his concern about how fascist rhetoric is showing up in politics and policies around the world.[39] Historian John Lukacs argues that there is no such thing as generic fascism. He claims that Nazism and communism are essentially manifestations of populism and that states such as Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy are more different than similar.[40] Roger Griffin describes fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultranationalism."[41] Griffin describes the ideology as having three core components: "(i) the rebirth myth, (ii) populist ultra-nationalism, and (iii) the myth of decadence."[42] In Griffin's view, fascism is "a genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism" built on a complex range of theoretical and cultural influences. He distinguishes an inter-war period in which it manifested itself in elite-led but populist "armed party" politics opposing socialism and liberalism, and promising radical politics to rescue the nation from decadence.[43][page needed] Kershaw argues that the difference between fascism and other forms of right-wing authoritarianism in the Interwar period is that the latter generally aimed "to conserve the existing social order", whereas fascism was "revolutionary", seeking to change society and obtain "total commitment" from the population.[44]

Fascist as a pejorative​

Main article: Fascist (insult)
The term fascist has been used as a pejorative,[74] regarding varying movements across the far right of the political spectrum. George Orwell noted in 1944 that the term had been used to denigrate diverse positions "in internal politics": while fascism is "a political and economic system" that was inconvenient to define, "as used, the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless. ... almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist,'"[75][emphasis added], and in 1946 wrote that "...'Fascism' has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies something not desirable."[76]

Despite fascist movements' history of anti-communism, Communist states have sometimes been referred to as fascist, typically as an insult. It has been applied to Marxist–Leninist regimes in Cuba under Fidel Castro and Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh.[77] Chinese Marxists used the term to denounce the Soviet Union during the Sino-Soviet split, and the Soviets used the term to denounce Chinese Marxists[78] and social democracy, coining a new term in social fascism.

In the United States, Herbert Matthews of The New York Times asked in 1946: "Should we now place Stalinist Russia in the same category as Hitlerite Germany? Should we say that she is Fascist?"[79] J. Edgar Hoover, longtime FBI director and ardent anti-communist, wrote extensively of red fascism.[80] The Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s was sometimes called fascist. Historian Peter Amann states that, "Undeniably, the Klan had some traits in common with European fascism—chauvinism, racism, a mystique of violence, an affirmation of a certain kind of archaic traditionalism—yet their differences were fundamental ... [the KKK] never envisioned a change of political or economic system."[81]

Richard Griffiths of the University of Wales wrote in 2005 that "fascism" is the "most misused, and over-used word, of our times."[82][page needed][clarification needed] "Fascist" is sometimes applied to post-World War II organizations and ways of thinking that academics more commonly term neo-fascist.[83]

 

[hank4elk]

I wear a Swiss watch and it does not tic toc much. Damn 'puters...
Carry on.

 

[more_cowbell]

In his book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, Jason Stanley defined fascism as "a cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of humiliation brought on by supposed communists, Marxists and minorities and immigrants who are supposedly posing a threat to the character and the history of a nation." and that "The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors."

Really interesting. Certain contingents of both sides of the spectrum are currently doing this, but with different alleged wrongs or justifications that need to be "corrected". Drawing from modern history, I think the extreme sides of the spectrum ended up having a lot in common with each other, with respect to their tactics, including how to label, denounce and judge anyone who is perceived to disagree with them. Continues today. Then people get even more wound up.

 

[TheJason]

Soooo, are commies for or against Tik Tok? Asking for a friend…

 

[hank4elk]

Soooo, are commies for or against Tik Tok? Asking for a friend…

commies and fascist sales weasels...