Montana 2025 Legislative Session

[Ben Lamb]

Book the Elk Hunt at Teigen Ranch in Montana.

The Teigen Ranch is a family ranching operation, home to classic western hunting opportunities in Central Montana. The ranch is located in between Grass Range and Winnett, and offers just under 3,000 acres of wide open grasslands, hay fields, creekbottom, and pines. The property is split by...

landtrust.com

No, nothing to see here, nothing is for sale!

They're renting the access, not selling the license. Yes, some ranches lease, some are in land trust and others are outfitted while even more allow limited access and/or engage in FWP access programs.

Welcome to private property rights.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Here is the link to the FWP Contact us page. They can get you those answers:

ABOUT FWP :: Contact Us | Montana FWP

How to contact FWP

fwp.mt.gov

I think the bigger point is - these questions seem like they'd have been relevant to ask, prior to introduction, if this was actually trying to solve a problem.

 

[Forkyfinder]

They're renting the access, not selling the license. Yes, some ranches lease, some are in land trust and others are outfitted while even more allow limited access and/or engage in FWP access programs.

Welcome to private property rights.

Wait - so are the elk an asset or liability?

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think the bigger point is - these questions seem like they'd have been relevant to ask, prior to introduction, if this was actually trying to solve a problem.

Assuming positive intent is a wonderful tool when it comes to advocacy. When you start your assumptions from the negative, you create an adversarial approach to an issue. It has a tendency to shut down thoughtful debate.

Wait - so are the elk an asset or liability?

They can certainly be both. Are landowners a monolithic block of public hunter haters?

 

[Forkyfinder]

Assuming positive intent is a wonderful tool when it comes to advocacy. When you start your assumptions from the negative, you create an adversarial approach to an issue. It has a tendency to shut down thoughtful debate.



They can certainly be both. Are landowners a monolithic block of public hunter haters?

What problem is this solving? I think its perfectly fair to question the point of something, if it wasnt meant to solve a problem. If that is assumed negative, the assumption may say more than the question. Arent more tags - NOT the same approach of the last 20 years?

They sure can be both. An asset in most ways aug 15-feb15 and a liability feb 15 - aug 15. I suppose if i wanted to maximize my business profits id sure want to extend those asset dates and the methods/means they are an asset. If thats what this is - lets be honest about it.

Absolutely not, landowners are not a monolith. Lobbyist orgs seem to like to represent them as such.

 

[Flynarrow]

Thanks Ben, I appreciate it. I won't ever throw the towel in on anyone, because once you do you are out of the game, but I don't my breath as long with some of these contingents.

Did the agency request this? Senator Loge represents a Senate District with no hunting districts over objective and contains some below and is adjacent to some chronically below. Hard to understand where these ideas come from.

This bill SB 270 was initiated by the Montana Conservation Society.....Ben Lamb and Wilie Galt, et al. Wilie Galt, one of the largest MT landowners was responsible for getting elk tags for up to 3 in a previous legislative season. Those pesky hunters who want one elk ....be damned. Over 80% of Montana elk hunters didn't get one last year. The issue continues.....large landowners don't want to provide access but want cow elk killed. There are presently plenty of other options to kill cow elk on private lands.

What are the optics of a privileged few killing a trailer load of elk while over 80% didn't get one. How do non-hunters view mass killing?

At yesterdays Senate hearing, the proponents were primarily just the Montana Conservation Society, MOGA, and RMEF (for some reason?). IMO they went to Loge as a sponsor because he is Chairman of the House Committee and is a landowner.....in an area without an abundance of elk btw.

 

[MTGomer]

The bill limits NR's to 1 cow elk license if the hunter does not hold a B10 or elk combo, or 2 if they do, so it's a slight reduction in NR hunter opportunity.

 

[Forkyfinder]

On second thought- im in for aerial gunning. Wipe em out. Ill even volunteer to help clean some of the shrapnel (no pun initially intended) up for donation to those orgs that want meat.Those elk gotta go and we need new solutions.

I think the press asking FWP, legislators, and large land owners whats wrong with the existing programs would be a good thing. The press and attention of a blackhawk/minigun on some elk ought to attract plenty of conversation.

 

[mtnkid85]

We got this information while looking into sb270.

The number of Kill permits given out since 2015 has varied between 7-52/yr. Very limited use and throughly vetted/overseen by the department.

The number of elk harvested per hunter from hunter survey data shows hunters who harvested 1 elk is about 16% of hunters, 2 elk is 2% and 3 elk is only .2% of hunters.

Those numbers show there is an extremely small amount of people who are utilizing the amount of tags we currently have access to. If ever, the argument "we don't have a tag problem we have an access problem" applied to anything, it is here!

Sen. Loge is alley to sportsmen and no one is insinuating that he has nefarious intentions with this bill, but never the less, the unattended consequences need to be considered and they could be devastating to our public access programs.

 

[Elky Welky]

If ever, the argument "we don't have a tag problem we have an access problem" applied to anything, it is here!

You can lead a landowner to a solution, but you can't force them to utilize it. And around and around we go. I'd almost say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" also applies. However, it's not that it ain't broke, it's more: "I don't want to use the tools I have, give me a different tool that makes it so I can continue to exclude the public but still get what I want."

Thanks @mtnkid85 for looking into this data.