Minimum ages, mentor tags, and other rambling thoughts

[Gerald Martin]

Tony, I understand your concerns. I actually think all kids regardless of age should have to pass hunter safety before being allowed to hunt. I don't think there is a feeling of entitlement among parents who feel their children are old enough to hunt as much as a sense of frustration over an arbitrary age limit. Set the boundary with a skills and knowledge test and make it rigorous enough that only those who can qualify are allowed to hunt. That should be the determining age whether it be 6 or whether it be 16.

My daughter just completed her hunter ed this past Sat. There was a big difference in child ability as well as parental involvement within the class. Those whose parents took an active role in developing and participating in were much more engaged and interested in the class. I must say the instructors went above and beyond in giving as much training as they could. At the field day they allowed each child to shoot multiple firearms other than the .22 rimfires and shotgun at their own expense. My daughter was allowed to shoot an AK 47, an AR 15, a lever action .357, and a Glock .40. She was thrilled and asked if she could take the class again, just so she could shoot all the guns.

 

[Gerald Martin]

JLS, thanks for posting up that info. I'm going to take a serious look at Idaho's mentored license for my son. It appears that it is for one year only if I understand it properly?

 

[TheJason]

JLS, thanks for posting up that info. I'm going to take a serious look at Idaho's mentored license for my son. It appears that it is for one year only if I understand it properly?

I believe you can do this every year until they are 18.

 

[TheJason]

I believe more access and game in the hills has more to do with hunter recriutment then starting them early, but that's just me.

I would wholeheartedly agree with you. However, one can walk and chew gum at the same time, no?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Is it only the hunting passport program which defers hunters safety for one year and allows a youth to hunt? If I understand it properly, he could hunt for one year without hunter safety ed and following years, he must have the hunter ed certificate to participate?

 

[jryoung]

I think a lot of the aprehension has to do with us not wanting to see kids hunting listen in the headlines like the incident in the Bitterroot last year, or like the kid in Washington that shot a hiker a few years back.

But, are those issues a result of their age, maturity, or their mentorship? Young kids with bad metors are likely going to be trouble...and we know there a host of bad mentors in the hunting community. The worst of this is that it is easy fodder for the anti-hunting community, and it is the blackest of black eyes....slob hunters passing on the "tradition".

But, why should we punish those that have taught gun safety, respect, and woodsmanship from a very early age? It's unfair to those that have done things right.

 

[Mica Man]

Here is what a couple of 10 yr old hunters did in my family so It's not difficult to guess where I stand on the subject. Both kids used their own license and tags and did not need the help of "uncle Joe" or myself to do any of the shooting. These kids were mentored before taking hunters safety. Were mentored on their successful and unsuccessful hunts, and continue to be mentored. Happy smiles on their faces tell it all.

 

[cur dog]

Gerald and Mica Man, great pictures of your kids! I love seeing the excitement on the faces of young hunters. Both of my kids started hunting whitetails here in Pennsylvania at age 7. Both Mentor and Mentored have learned a ton. Both of my kids have also been very successful. I've always been reluctant to post any pictures of our trophy's here. You are almost guaranteed backlash, from a few of the Hunt Talk turds. The guys with young hunters know that this time afield is priceless, as far as education and quality time spent together. Just looking at your photos and mine as well, I can tell that these kids are "ruined" for life.

 

[TheJason]

Is it only the hunting passport program which defers hunters safety for one year and allows a youth to hunt? If I understand it properly, he could hunt for one year without hunter safety ed and following years, he must have the hunter ed certificate to participate?

I don't think we're on the same sheet of music. I mistakenly called it a youth mentored license, it's actually the junior mentored license and is not a Hunter Ed deferral, but a discounted NR license.

https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/publi...?resType=Nonresident&feeType=Tag&feeCategory=

Edit: I looked up the hunting passport program and you are correct. It is a one time, one year Hunter Ed deferral for ages 8 and up.

As an aside, I agree completely with the rationale IDFG offered for this program. Getting kids and/or young adults into a Hunter Ed class CAN be a barrier. Yes, life is about priorities and there are the people that put Hunter Ed as a #1 priority. That's great. For people in small towns that are off the grid or single parents in a big town, it can be very difficult to coordinate a class.

 

[JMG]

In my opinion. I think the minumum hunting age in Montana should remain twelve (12). I had to wait until I turned twelve and my sons had to wait, no one was harmed or needed counseling. I took my boys archery and rifle hunting with me when they were way younger than twelve. We all had a lot of fun (see photo - priceless and no dead critter). Hunting is not about pulling the trigger on an animal its THE HUNT (the whole experience). Just because they allow it in other States, does not mean we should here in Montana.

The Hunters Safety Course is a very important educational tool and I think it should be manditory. Is requiring your sons or daughters to be twelve to hunt and take Hunters Safety asking too much . . . . .really? Waiting for something that you want really bad for a period of time and finally being allowed to do it is a life lesson in itself. You learn to appreciate it and value the experience more.

Just my opinion.

Respectfully, signing off as one of those "Hunt Talk Turds".

 

[shoots-straight]

Tony, I understand your concerns. I actually think all kids regardless of age should have to pass hunter safety before being allowed to hunt

This ^^^^^^^^^

Most sportsman groups that are opposed to the bill in Helena right now, are opposed because there's no other source of ethics taught to the kid before he goes out to hunt for the first time.

I'm sure every one of the mentors on this site do outstanding with their kids. BUT, your only the top 5% of our fraternity. The remaining 95% are not good mentors and start their kids down the wrong path. We feel they need at least some sort of outside education to at the min. have them question why dad wants to shoot JR's elk.

Maybe the mentor should take an On-line course first in order to purchase JR license.

Ideas?

 

[Nameless Range]

I have two children - one who is approaching the age of hunting, and I don't really feel strongly about this either way. My kids hunt with me whether they are behind the trigger or not. For those who choose to leave theirs at home - that's on them.

These arguments that a nine year old can be more mature and capable than some teenagers though, and on and on, are irrelevant.

I know 12 year olds that are better drivers than some 40 year olds.
I know 15 year olds who could make more informed voting decisions than many 30 year olds.
I know a guy who smoked 2 packs a day and lived to be 80.

We are not talking about individuals here. We are talking about acceptable societal thresholds when considering the average maturity of the aggregate.

I would be fine with lowering the hunting age if that makes sense. It shouldn't be a subjective decision based on a parent's assessment though - that is garbage. We are talking about a potentially dangerous activity that involves the reduction of a public resource.

Part of me wonders if most 9 year olds are capable of understanding those things that should be understood prior to hunting - The North American Model, public trust, the destruction of an animal, etc. Part of me wonders if the arguments I provide to non-hunters involving the respect, beauty, and reverence of hunting would fall on deaf ears if I were defending those same actions by someone who's reading level has yet to reach that of Posewitz's, Beyond Fair Chase - currently required reading in Montana Hunter's Ed Courses.

If society deems it within our acceptable threshold, I am fine with lowering the age, but it must be an objective age and not based on a parent's evaluation and hunter's education should be mandatory.

Just my opinion.

 

[tjones]

Here is my son with his first elk at 12 years old, and his elk from last season some 15 years later. In between a slew of other critters, like turkey, antelope, mule deer, whitetail, coyote and bunch of small game. I don't think waiting till he was 12 ruined him.



signed a Huntalk Turd

 

[Ben Lamb]

FYI - the Bill in question, SB 395 was tabled in committee last week: http://laws.leg.mt.gov/legprd/LAW0210W$BSIV.ActionQuery?P_BILL_NO1=395&P_BLTP_BILL_TYP_CD=SB&Z_ACTION=Find&P_SESS=20151

Not picking a side on this, but this bill was much better than last session's which would have been a free-for-all.

 

[James Riley]

JMG, shoots-straight, Nameless Range and tjones all make compelling arguments. I never thought much about this subject till I read the arguments here, but I'm convinced by them.

Society draws all kinds of lines for convenience and logistics. Some "one size fits all" rules can rub you the wrong way, but that's life. I thought it was stupid that I was old enough to fight, kill and maybe even die for my country but I could not legally have a beer in it. I think it's dumb that a 17 year old boy can :hump: a 17 year old girl but he becomes a criminal on the day he turns 18 (half plus 7 is better ).

The bottom line, for me, is that an objective third party have an opportunity to present some situation ethics to a kid before he pulls the trigger or lets the arrow fly. Ideally this should be done with mom and/or dad present so everyone in the family knows what's been said to the kid, and the kid know's mom and/or dad heard it too. If mom and/or dad then wants to poo poo the lesson when they get home, they can, but they have to pass the red face test when they do it. Nothing wrong with a little peer pressure ethics coming from a state with a vested interest in preserving an honorable way that is under threat from within and without the community.

 

[RobG]

I think a lot of the aprehension has to do with us not wanting to see kids hunting listen in the headlines like the incident in the Bitterroot last year, or like the kid in Washington that shot a hiker a few years back.

But, are those issues a result of their age, maturity, or their mentorship? Young kids with bad metors are likely going to be trouble...and we know there a host of bad mentors in the hunting community. The worst of this is that it is easy fodder for the anti-hunting community, and it is the blackest of black eyes....slob hunters passing on the "tradition".

But, why should we punish those that have taught gun safety, respect, and woodsmanship from a very early age? It's unfair to those that have done things right.

I don't think that mob shooting incident had anything to do with the age of the participants as evidenced by the fact that the same thing happens with adults. I do however have concerns about kids going into the field without hunter's safety. If they have been hunting several years by the time they take it, the information won't be taken seriously.

Based on the plans of working group assigned to educate the public on the lack of ethics of about this mob shooting I'm sure it will be brought up in hunter's safety. Parents are less likely to participate in things their kids have been taught as unethical.

 

[RobG]

By the way, not a small part of hunter safety's purpose is to educate these so called mentors.

 

[jryoung]

Maybe the mentor should take an On-line course first in order to purchase JR license.

I'm much more flexible, if anyone wants to purchase my license, no course needed, I'll gladly hand over my ALS.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Wow! Usually it takes more than 1 day for the insults to start.

 

[shoots-straight]

Age 12

then age 53 waiting didn't hurt my desire to hunt.