Militia takes over wildlife refuge headquarters

[katqanna]

A Militia Has Taken Over A Federal Building In Oregon

Bundy said the group planned to stay at the refuge indefinitely. "We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely," Ammon Bundy said. "This is not a decision we've made at the last minute."

lol, I had to laugh at one of the reddit commentors, "I say we do everything to keep them there."

 

[T-man]

Well if anyone is really interested in the facts:





naturalnews.com/Saturday, January 02, 2016 - by Mike Adams

"...

(aa) The Harney Basin (were the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870's. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.

(ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an "Indian reservation" around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it "as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds". Later this "Indian reservation" (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

(a) In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.

(a1) By the 1970's nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond's ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.

(a2) During the 1970's the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, "grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced". 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.

(a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.

(a4) By the 1990's the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers that still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling fact about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study that was done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed that the "no use" policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed that the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced 4 times more ducks and geese than the refuge did. It also showed that the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.

(b) In the early 1990's the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out that the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive towards the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found that the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*

(c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with "disturbing and interfering with" federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony). He spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland before he was hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.

(d) The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond's private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond's ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS.

(e) Shortly after the road & water disputes, the BLM & FWS arbitrarily revoked the Hammond's upper grazing permit without any given cause, court proceeding or court ruling. As a traditional "fence out state" Oregon requires no obligation on the part of an owner to keep his or her livestock within a fence or to maintain control over the movement of the livestock. The Hammonds intended to still use their private property for grazing. However, they were informed that a federal judge ruled, in a federal court, that the federal government did not have to observe the Oregon fence out law. "Those laws are for the people, not for them".

(f) The Hammonds were forced to either build and maintain miles of fences or be restricted from the use of their private property. Cutting their ranch in almost half, they could not afford to fence the land, so the cattle were removed.

Dwight Hammond (Father)

(g) The Hammonds experienced many years of financial hardship due to the ranch being diminished. The Hammonds had to sale their ranch and home in order to purchase another property that had enough grass to feed their cattle. This property included two grazing rights on public land. Those were also arbitrarily revoked later.

(h) The owner of the Hammond's original ranch passed away from a heart attack and the Hammonds made a trade for the ranch back.

(i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.

 

[T-man]

part 2
j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven's mother, Susan Hammond said: "The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home".

(j1) The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff's office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined that the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.

Steven Hammond (Son)

(k) In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges, they accused them of being "Terrorist" under the Federal Antiterrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death. Dwight & Steven's mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as "Arsonists". Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: "I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me".

(l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers "clowns" who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable rangeland. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain that he had not made those comments and request that they be taken down from the website. Capital Press removed the comments. A search of the Internet Protocol address associated with the comments revealed it is owned by the BLM's office in Denver, Colorado. Allum said, he is friends with the Hammonds and was alerted to the comments by neighbors who knew he wouldn't have written them. "I feel bad for them. They lost a lot and they're going to lose more," Allum said of the ranchers. "They're not terrorists. There's this hatred in the BLM for them, and I don't get it," The retired BLM employee said. Jody Weil, deputy state director for communications at BLM's Oregon office, indicated to reporters that if one of their agents falsified the comments, they would keep it private and not inform the public.

(m) In September 2006, Dwight & Susan Hammond's home was raided. The agents informed the Hammonds that they were looking for evidence that would connect them to the fires. The Hammonds later found out that a boot print and a tire tracks were found near one of the many fires. No matching boots or tires were found in the Hammonds home or on their property. Susan Hammond (Wife) later said; " I have never felt so violated in my life. We are ranchers not criminals". Steven Hammond openly maintains his testimony that he started the backfire to save the winter grass from being destroyed and that the backfire ended up working so well it put out the fire entirely altogether.

During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the trail that would exonerate the Hammonds. Federal prosecuting attorney, Frank Papagni, was given full access for 6 days. He had ample time to use any evidence or testimony that strengthened the demonization of the Hammonds. The Hammonds attorney was only allowed 1 day. Much of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury. For example, Judge Hogan did not allow time for the jury to hear or review certified scientific findings that the fires improved the health and productivity of the land. Or, that the Hammonds had been subject to vindictive behavior by multiple federal agencies for years.

(o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness that was not mentally capable to be a credible witness. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13 at the time and 24 when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty's memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible. He allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty's testimony anyway. When speaking to the Hammonds about this testimony, they understood that Dusty was manipulated and expressed nothing but love for their troubled grandson.

(p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process. Hogan & Papagni only allowed people on the jury who did not understand the customs and culture of the ranchers or how the land is used and cared for in the Diamond Valley. All of the jurors had to drive back and forth to Pendleton everyday. Some drove more than two hours each way. By day 8 they were exhausted and expressed desires to be home. On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision. Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual that has convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act. The jury, not understanding the customs and cultures of the area, influenced by the prosecutors for 6 straight days, very exhausted, pushed for a verdict by the judge, unaware of the ramification of convicting someone as a terrorist, made a verdict and went home.

(q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as "Terrorist" under the 1996 Antiterrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. They were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. Hogan overruling the minimum terrorist sentence, commenting that if the full five years were required it would be a violation of the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge. In his honor the staff served chocolate cake in the courtroom.

r) On January 4,, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.

(s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch), along with attorney Frank Papagni exemplifying further vindictive behavior by filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight's and Steven's return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.*

Hammond Family
(t) In October 2015, the 9th District Court "resentenced" Dwight and Steven, requiring them to return to prison for several more years. Steven (46) has a wife and 3 children. Dwight (74) will leave Susan (74) to be alone after 55 years of marriage. If he survives, he will be 79 when he is released.
(u) During the court preceding the Hammonds were forced to grant the BLM first right of refusal. If the Hammonds ever sold their ranch they would have to sell it to the BLM.

(v) Dwight and Steven are ordered to report to federal prison again on January 4th, 2016 to begin their resentencing. Both their wives will have to manage the ranch for several years without them. To date they have paid $200,000 to the BLM, and the remainder $200,000 must be paid before the end of this year (2015). If the Hammonds cannot pay the fines to the BLM, they will be forced to sell the ranch to the BLM or face further prosecution.

Notes:

S* Rhonda Karges – Resource Field Manager for the BLM is the wife of Chad Karges Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife refuge.

Rhonda specifically deals with all the BLM issues relating to the area in and around Hammonds property including "grazing denial". Her husband just happens to be the person in charge of all the issues surrounding the Hammonds ranch such as "water and access".

b* Soon after the water rights dispute the federal government influenced the State of Oregon to change their water law in favor of federal agencies. Wildlife is now considered in the State of Oregon as an accepted beneficial use for government agencies only.

k* Being convicted as Terrorist made the Hammonds felons. They have been striped of their right to have guns. The Hammond live 53 miles from the closets town and have no practical way of defending themselves or their cattle. Several times they have watched baby calves be eaten by predators and could do nothing to prevent it.

Conclusion
The abuses and corruptions affecting people like the Hammonds are symptoms of a more encompassing problem. Government employees (fulltime & elected) have changed their culture from one of service to, and respect for the people, to the roll of being a masters. On the subject of the land, it is evident that government employees are no longer assisting the people in claiming, using and defending property. Instead, they have become the people's competitor to the benefits of the land, and are willing to use force on those who they erroneously compete against.

The federal government adversely controls over 582,000,000 acres of the western lands, 51% of the entire western land mass. They also have recently begun claiming over 72% of western resources such as the sub-surface minerals, forestry and waters. This is in comparison to 4.29% federally controlled land in the east..."

more at link

 

[mtmiller]

Was going to read your post, but thought I would check out the source first.

After reading about Mike Adams and his rag, I decided it would be a waste of time.

Carry on.

 

[BuzzH]

Yep, real reliable source, no reason to even read that cut and paste.

 

[katqanna]

Mike Adams left the US because of political dissent, to live south of the border for a number of years when he was dealing with Natural News, which I periodically checked over the years, being into healthy things. Then, when some political thing was going on (cant remember), Adams moved back to the US a few years ago, to Austin (my old stomping grounds). Interestingly, I also watched what was going on at Info Wars with Alex Jones, also in Austin and had seen that InfoWars was linking to Natural News prior to Adams moving back to the US and Austin, so it didnt surprise me that he chose that neck of the woods, so when you look at Natural News, you have to account for InfoWars and vice versa. You know what they say about politics and strange bedfellows.

 

[Big Fin]

Conclusion
The abuses and corruptions affecting people like the Hammonds are symptoms of a more encompassing problem. Government employees (fulltime & elected) have changed their culture from one of service to, and respect for the people, to the roll of being a masters. On the subject of the land, it is evident that government employees are no longer assisting the people in claiming, using and defending property. Instead, they have become the people's competitor to the benefits of the land, and are willing to use force on those who they erroneously compete against.

The federal government adversely controls over 582,000,000 acres of the western lands, 51% of the entire western land mass. They also have recently begun claiming over 72% of western resources such as the sub-surface minerals, forestry and waters. This is in comparison to 4.29% federally controlled land in the east..."

more at link

More conclusions:

(1) If you decide to poach deer and burn up the evidence on public land, expect to be prosecuted.

(2) If you decide to continue torching property, no matter how big or how small, you put other people's lives at risk. Arson is arson. If you make that your manner of expressing frustration, expect to be treated as a felon.

(3) If you decide to use arson as your tool of protest, don't expect a lot of sympathy from most Americans, whether you are torching public or private property. Expect little empathy from people who don't appreciate you risking the lives of others; such as a jury who might be seated to hear your case.

(4) If you are convicted of a felony because of stupid acts, expect your prison time to be a hardship on your family and your business.

(5) If you are inclined to engaged in felonies and want to go to court to make your point, make sure you have the best attorney you can find. If you get your ass handed to you because of the legal fiction your attorney tries to pawn off, blame the attorney, not the jury.

(6) If you are a Militia supporter and you find your most worthy causes to be the likes of Cliven Bundy and convicted arsonists, I conclude your are an ass clown looking for trouble and if you find trouble I'm not too inclined to worry about the outcome.

(7) If you think Mike Adams side of the story, as slanted as it is, is the only side to a story, understand there is another side of the story that the jury heard and found to be far more compelling than what Mike Adams has tossed out there. Funny how an entire jury can hear the story and unanimously conclude the story they heard in court as opposed to believing the "victimization" yarn provided by Mike Adams and Hammond's attorney.

(8) By asking the Militia to leave Burns alone and go somewhere else, the Hammond's seem to have concern about the bigger picture of the local area and its citizens; a concern not shared by the Militia people who could care less about what headache they impose on local communities, so long as they can spend another winter making headlines as some sort of circus sideshow.


I have no use for people who do chit like this. Imagine if someone burnt some of the Hammond's property because they were pissed off. Imagine the chit storm if the BLM had some event where they accidentally burned some of Hammond's property, say in a controlled burn. I have even less use for morons who think this is some sort of event that justifies taking over a Federal building.

I hope the Feds finally tired of this chit and take action. I'm unimpressed with these Militia types. Based on the ones I've seen in Montana, I'm not impressed with their actions and I'm always amazed at the level of hypocrisy they express. But, given the lack of spine I see in the current Commander in Chief, I see little hope that these Militia types will be dealt with any time soon.

 

[T-man]

Was going to read your post, but thought I would check out the source first.

After reading about Mike Adams and his rag, I decided it would be a waste of time.

Carry on.

In all honesty I hardly doubt there was much BS in that post. While it may not portray the beloved .guv types as hero's. It also sheds a different light on how those now involved "need" to be violated/raped in-prisoned.

Information from what ever the source is just that. No different then watching cnn, cbs or fox. They all spin it, the way they want the viewer/reader to interpret it.

 

[T-man]

More conclusions:

(1) If you decide to poach deer and burn up the evidence on public land, expect to be prosecuted.

(2) If you decide to continue torching property, no matter how big or how small, you put other people's lives at risk. Arson is arson. If you make that your manner of expressing frustration, expect to be treated as a felon.

(3) If you decide to use arson as your tool of protest, don't expect a lot of sympathy from most Americans, whether you are torching public or private property. Expect little empathy from people who don't appreciate you risking the lives of others; such as a jury who might be seated to hear your case.

(4) If you are convicted of a felony because of stupid acts, expect your prison time to be a hardship on your family and your business.

(5) If you are inclined to engaged in felonies and want to go to court to make your point, make sure you have the best attorney you can find. If you get your ass handed to you because of the legal fiction your attorney tries to pawn off, blame the attorney, not the jury.

(6) If you are a Militia supporter and you find your most worthy causes to be the likes of Cliven Bundy and convicted arsonists, I conclude your are an ass clown looking for trouble and if you find trouble I'm not too inclined to worry about the outcome.

(7) If you think Mike Adams side of the story, as slanted as it is, is the only side to a story, understand there is another side of the story that the jury heard and found to be far more compelling than what Mike Adams has tossed out there. Funny how an entire jury can hear the story and unanimously conclude the story they heard in court as opposed to believing the "victimization" yarn provided by Mike Adams and Hammond's attorney.

(8) By asking the Militia to leave Burns alone and go somewhere else, the Hammond's seem to have concern about the bigger picture of the local area and its citizens; a concern not shared by the Militia people who could care less about what headache they impose on local communities, so long as they can spend another winter making headlines as some sort of circus sideshow.


I have no use for people who do chit like this. Imagine if someone burnt some of the Hammond's property because they were pissed off. Imagine the chit storm if the BLM had some event where they accidentally burned some of Hammond's property, say in a controlled burn. I have even less use for morons who think this is some sort of event that justifies taking over a Federal building.

I hope the Feds finally tired of this chit and take action. I'm unimpressed with these Militia types. Based on the ones I've seen in Montana, I'm not impressed with their actions and I'm always amazed at the level of hypocrisy they express. But, given the lack of spine I see in the current Commander in Chief, I see little hope that these Militia types will be dealt with any time soon.

Can you post inks to this stuff ?

I was not aware this family was poaching.

 

[katqanna]

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison - United States Attorney's Office, District of Oregon

EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.

A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012. The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.

The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.

The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.

By law, arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. When the Hammonds were originally sentenced, they argued that the five-year mandatory minimum terms were unconstitutional and the trial court agreed and imposed sentences well below what the law required based upon the jury’s verdicts. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, however, upheld the federal law, reasoning that “given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense.” The court vacated the original, unlawful sentences and ordered that the Hammonds be resentenced “in compliance with the law.” In March 2015, the Supreme Court rejected the Hammonds’ petitions for certiorari. Today, Chief Judge Aiken imposed five year prison terms on each of the Hammonds, with credit for time they already served.

“We all know the devastating effects that are caused by wildfires. Fires intentionally and illegally set on public lands, even those in a remote area, threaten property and residents and endanger firefighters called to battle the blaze” stated Acting U.S. Attorney Billy Williams.

“Congress sought to ensure that anyone who maliciously damages United States’ property by fire will serve at least 5 years in prison. These sentences are intended to be long enough to deter those like the Hammonds who disregard the law and place fire fighters and others in jeopardy.”

Assistant U.S. Attorneys Frank R Papagni, Jr., AnneMarie Sgarlata and Kelly Zusman handled the prosecution of this case.

 

[mtmiller]

...............

 

[Big Fin]

Can you post inks to this stuff ?

I was not aware this family was poaching.

See Kat's post where it is bolded and underlined. Many people, including some of their family, testified in the court case to these game violations being part of why the first act of arson was engaged in. I have posted a link to the court summary in my first post on this thread - http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/e...convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison


You are not aware the family was poaching, but you come on here and post a bunch of junk by Mike Adams that is sympathetic to the family. That is your freedom to do so, but it doesn't change my opinions about this family getting what they had coming and furthers my opinion that the Militia self-identifies as ass clowns when they choose these kinds of incidents to use as the poster-child for their cause of freedom. Whoever at the Militia is in charge of selecting issues and people for examples to illustrate their claims of governmental abuse should be fired.

 

[hank4elk]

In all honesty I hardly doubt there was much BS in that post. While it may not portray the beloved .guv types as hero's. It also sheds a different light on how those now involved "need" to be violated/raped in-prisoned.

Information from what ever the source is just that. No different then watching cnn, cbs or fox. They all spin it, the way they want the viewer/reader to interpret it.

Seriously,look at different public sources.
Or just make silly retorts and use false or implied info as back up.

My neighbors Bro lives in Baker. Says they are ass wipes and deserve worse.
I take his word for it. He's just a public land hunter with a muffler shop.....

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Glad that Paul Harvey told the rest of the story. From what I have read here in the east, AP and Washington Post, the Hammonds are portrayed more as somebody who did something dumb and are being punished as terrorists. I have not read that this was a long series of things that seem to be willful contempt of the law and government on many levels. They also come off more as bystanders to the militia. Glad to hear they are getting what's coming to them.

 

[hank4elk]

The Bundies and the militia idiots are there on their own from what I have read and heard from OR folks.
Hammonds did not ask for help from what I have seen & heard.
They are dumb and are getting what is minimum on the arson of Federal Property.
And it has gone world wide in the press now.

 

[T-man]

See Kat's post where it is bolded and underlined. Many people, including some of their family, testified in the court case to these game violations being part of why the first act of arson was engaged in. I have posted a link to the court summary in my first post on this thread - http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/e...convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison


You are not aware the family was poaching, but you come on here and post a bunch of junk by Mike Adams that is sympathetic to the family. That is your freedom to do so, but it doesn't change my opinions about this family getting what they had coming and furthers my opinion that the Militia self-identifies as ass clowns when they choose these kinds of incidents to use as the poster-child for their cause of freedom. Whoever at the Militia is in charge of selecting issues and people for examples to illustrate their claims of governmental abuse should be fired.

I did not "come on here" looking to stir up trouble. Sorry for causing any issues.

 

[Pinecricker]

Here's how to de-escalate this situation.

Walk up to the building they are occupying with a camera. Act like you're going to take their picture. Being ranchers, when you say "cheese" they will all line up with their hands out, and you can slap the cuffs on them.

 

[Big Fin]

This was posted on another forum by a guy who lives in the same area. I have no idea of the validity of this guy's perspective, but if the locals feel like this guy does, it would be easy to see why Hammond's support would come from outside the area, such as a bunch of mis/uninformed folks like the Bundy welfare operation.

Know, see, and pass those folks on the byways quite often.

I've personally witnessed a few wildlife related violations executed by this clan and know of several other criminal incidents where they were never apprehended. They have bucked public land, wildlife, and local regulatory policies and regulations for years and gotten away with it mostly due to being in a remote locale. Often quite proud and vocal about being above the law.

We've got more square miles than people out here with about 70% of the population tucked into two adjacent urban communities occupying about 10 square miles. That leaves about 9,990 square miles in the county for the remaining 2000 folks. One has to be stupid or simply unlucky to get caught for rather flagrant violations when he leaves town.

They were well nailed on this one and essentially received a slap on the wrist at first sentencing (like 6 months) from a lenient judge when the absolute minimum was 5 years. Did not sit well with prosecutors who endured years of motions, appeals, and stalling tactics with hopes that witnesses and such would eventually die, leave the community, or simply wear out.

Do the crime and risk the time. Likely deserved many times over in this instance.

 

[JLS]

The Hammonds were also charged with interfering with hunters who were legally on BLM land. Their attorney made the claim they should not be able to hunt animals that were leaving a private refuge for vacant public lands, or something very close to those lines.

If I set fire to some of their land I highly doubt the militia would come and support me if I got a hefty sentence.

 

[Oneye]

I really hope this finally breaks the camels back and they get their ass handed to them. Taking over a federal building is not the same as what happened in Nevada, they deserve prison time for this. This very well could end in blood, which is just ridiculous because of the idiots who decide to interpret the constitution in whatever way they see benefits them. Adequate force needs to be applied here and I hope once they get this dealt with they head straight back to Nevada and really show them they pressed their luck this time.