Meat Damage vs. Killing Power

[ImBillT]

I've never been a fan of rapid expansion bullets, but I get the appeal and theory behind it. I do think there is something to be said for a bullet that will "explode", basically, inside the chest cavity and transfer every foot-pound of available kinetic energy into the target and thereby cause massive and immediate organ failure: turn the insides to raspberry slush so to speak, but these bullets do tend to blow up usable meat too.

For me, I really like a bullet whose design tends more to cause a wound channel and exit hole. They kill fast too and you don't have pick lead and copper out of your meat afterward, well less anyway. I don't think hydrostatic shock is a myth, I just think it's a little over-rated. Like everything else, it's all a balance. A good wound channel is big but not a detonation.

It's nice when bang-flop happens but the only way to ensure that is by hitting the spine or brain, which I don't think are good targets due to their size/shape.

You don’t actually have to hit the spine or brain for a bang-flop.

 

[BWALKER77]

I'm a RUM shooter myself and will vouch.

Damn, three RUM shooters in one thread!

 

[BWALKER77]

You don’t actually have to hit the spine or brain for a bang-flop.

No, you definitely dont. The majority of deer I have shot with the 300 RUM have died where they stood when using BT and AB bullets. Most shot behind the shoulder.
Elk IMO are less responsive to bullet damage but the ones that I have shot that have died the quickest where all shot with BT bullets.

 

[88man]

I am a Berger shooter on all western hunts
I am a Partition or Accbond shooter while hunting in the woods for Deer & Bear in my home state.

I will share a KNock down power story> had friends talking about knock down power and how bullets just knock deer right off their feet and throw them. Those stories are either with a magnum or a heavy bullet from a big bore rifle and people who haven't harvested alot of big game. Anyways I took a white oak log about 16 in in diameter and set it on another just like it. I shot it at 3 yards with a 12Ga 1 oz slug. The slug didn't go thru and the 35lb log didn't fall off the other log! I did the same test with a 300 weatherby and a 200grn nosler partition. Same Result!!! I did the same thing with a 180grn berger Vld and the log blew into confiti. LOL Im kidding about the berger. Other tests were real.

I believe death comes from the tissue damage and the shock happens from rapid blood loss.
The fastest kills I have ever witnessed have all been with berger vlds> just dropped them and dead right there. It makes me wonder why there are so many berger hatters???

 

[WildWill]

Ran into the same problem with the SST.

 

[Brian in Montana]

You don’t actually have to hit the spine or brain for a bang-flop.

The operative word was "ensure" a bang-flop. I've shot deer in the shoulder that went straight down and died with grass still in their mouth.

 

[sbhooper]

I have never been an SST fan. They shoot well, but are too frangible for my liking. I much prefer the standard Interlocks, or Partitions, or Accubombs. That being said, I have never worried about meat loss, as long as the animal was dead. There is not much meat on the shoulders of a deer and you usually don't lose all of it anyway. If you shoot them in the neck, or lungs, meat damage is a non-issue anyway. For the little meat that I destroy, I will still punch animals through the shoulders, as they don't very often go anywhere.

For the most part, any decent bullet will kill a deer and as long as the bullet penetrates sufficiently to kill, the meat damage is of secondary importance. Penetration is of far more importance with big animals such as elk. I have shot a number of elk through the shoulders with Partitions and saved most of the meat that is there. Granted, the monos may not create as much trauma, but that is not necessarily a good thing every time, either.

 

[ImBillT]

The operative word was "ensure" a bang-flop. I've shot deer in the shoulder that went straight down and died with grass still in their mouth.

Again, brachial autonomic nervous plexus. I believe even a broad head will do it, but the more violently a bullet fragments, the more likely it is to be destroyed even without a direct hit. I believe most shoulder shots that seem to kill instantly(not just drop them and have them die soon after) do so because a bullet fragment or bone fragment destroys that nervous plexus.

 

[ShadowFast1]

The brachial plexus on a deer extends down from the spine where someone would place a bullet for a "High Shoulder" shot. If you hit it and not the spine, yes it's like hitting the off switch. While it drops the animal quickly there is meat loss and with the type of bullet that fragments in the wound channel you've got to worry about where all of that goes. An animal is just as dead from a heart/lung shot, it takes longer for them to fall, you damage less meat, and with a bullet that stays together you don't have to worry about as much shrapnel. There can be another thread about the alleged "Hydrostatic Shock" that goes on when an animal is hit with a projectile. But as far as meat loss you'll have to decide for yourself what is acceptable and what is not and what shot placement you prefer.

 

[wyoboypt]

Ran into the same problem with the SST.View attachment 124072

What caliber?

 

[WildWill]

What caliber?

30-06 165gr.

 

[wyoboypt]

Knew it had to be big cus my .270 never did that to a goat w an sst

30-06 165gr.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Knew it had to be big cus my .270 never did that to a goat w an sst

Saw a buddies .243 SST do something like that to a white tail once.

 

[antelopedundee]

I am a Berger shooter on all western hunts
I am a Partition or Accbond shooter while hunting in the woods for Deer & Bear in my home state.

I will share a KNock down power story> had friends talking about knock down power and how bullets just knock deer right off their feet and throw them. Those stories are either with a magnum or a heavy bullet from a big bore rifle and people who haven't harvested alot of big game. Anyways I took a white oak log about 16 in in diameter and set it on another just like it. I shot it at 3 yards with a 12Ga 1 oz slug. The slug didn't go thru and the 35lb log didn't fall off the other log! I did the same test with a 300 weatherby and a 200grn nosler partition. Same Result!!! I did the same thing with a 180grn berger Vld and the log blew into confiti. LOL Im kidding about the berger. Other tests were real.

I believe death comes from the tissue damage and the shock happens from rapid blood loss.
The fastest kills I have ever witnessed have all been with berger vlds> just dropped them and dead right there. It makes me wonder why there are so many berger hatters???

A lot of bullets will drop something dead right there if the critter is hit right and more importantly calm. I doubt that Bergers are unique in that respect.

 

[antelopedundee]

To me, hydrostatic shock is a myth. mtmuley

Git yerself 2 one gallon metal cans. Fill one with as much water as you can get into it. Put the cap on tight. Fill tuther half full mit water and put the cap on tight. Shoot each in the same spot 1/4 the way up from the bottom. See which can blows up the most.

 

[ShadowFast1]

Git yerself 2 one gallon metal cans. Fill one with as much water as you can get into it. Put the cap on tight. Fill tuther half full mit water and put the cap on tight. Shoot each in the same spot 1/4 the way up from the bottom. See which can blows up the most.

"Hydrostatics" is the study of fluids at rest and the pressure in a fluid or exerted by a fluid on an immersed body. The type of event you are describing demonstrates a pressure surge. When the fluid in the full container experiences an impact from a bullet the velocity of the resting fluid changes rapidly causing a sharp increase in pressure expanding the container until the base material fails causing a rupture and releasing it's contents. When the fluid in the half full container experiences the same event the fluid also has the same change in velocity and increase in pressure but it has the other half of the can to bleed off excess pressure into.

The term "Hydrostatic Shock" exists only in the world of firearms because it sells bullets and ammunition. I do believe in indirect injury and to some degree of paralysis caused by a gun shot wound. But we're not trying to kill animals with "Hydrostatic Shock". We're trying to damage vital organs and systems that cause quick and ethical death. And in the question raised by the OP we're trying to do that with minimal damage to the meat.

 

[BWALKER77]

Ran into the same problem with the SST.View attachment 124072

On a raking shot that can happen with many bullets, even monos.

 

[cahunter805]

"Hydrostatics" is the study of fluids at rest and the pressure in a fluid or exerted by a fluid on an immersed body. The type of event you are describing demonstrates a pressure surge. When the fluid in the full container experiences an impact from a bullet the velocity of the resting fluid changes rapidly causing a sharp increase in pressure expanding the container until the base material fails causing a rupture and releasing it's contents. When the fluid in the half full container experiences the same event the fluid also has the same change in velocity and increase in pressure but it has the other half of the can to bleed off excess pressure into.

The term "Hydrostatic Shock" exists only in the world of firearms because it sells bullets and ammunition. I do believe in indirect injury and to some degree of paralysis caused by a gun shot wound. But we're not trying to kill animals with "Hydrostatic Shock". We're trying to damage vital organs and systems that cause quick and ethical death. And in the question raised by the OP we're trying to do with with minimal damage to the meat.

+1! Very well put!
Animals die from tissue/organ damage/trauma and blood loss. Different bullet designs cause this in different ways and to different degrees.
I personally am ok with some meat loss if it means the animal is DRT or within a few yards.

 

[TheJason]

Git yerself 2 one gallon metal cans. Fill one with as much water as you can get into it. Put the cap on tight. Fill tuther half full mit water and put the cap on tight. Shoot each in the same spot 1/4 the way up from the bottom. See which can blows up the most.

That’s great. Metal cans aren’t a very reliable comparison to animal tissues.

 

[antelopedundee]

That’s great. Metal cans aren’t a very reliable comparison to animal tissues.

A liver [which is dense and is about 75% water] is akin to the full can of water. A solid hit just destroys it.

Watch enough hunting shows and you'll see all manner of situations from instant kills to shots which should have resulted in instant kills, but didn't. I as going to use the Hornady SSTs a couple years ago, but after reading about excessive damage I decided not to. I'll use either the Hornady 129 grain interlocks or Sierra 130 grain GameChangers in 6.5mm. Either one does the job with amazing efficiency.