Maybe we can’t have more hunters

[DouglasR]

The local mtb club is good about clearing trees and maintaining their racetrack that they were given free public land to build it on.
I’ve heard of guys putting on some good shows with chainsaws out there.

 

[DouglasR]

This is their logo.
I’ve always wondered what a shovel and pickaxe has to do with bicycles?
Maybe it’s because the park used to be a coal mine

 

[Hammsolo]

I routinely see backcountry horse clubs doing trail projects. I’ve cleared trails while riding horses, scouting for hunting, going hunting, and riding my mountain bike.

Bike clubs do some great work. Usually it’s so they can go faster. That isn’t always a good thing, but it’s fun.

As a whole, I think it’s fair to say most mountain bikers are very conscious of trail maintenance, but wholly ignorant of the impact their trails can have on wildlife.

JLS, I know you have. However, we are from the same area, and… I’ve personally maintained trails all over this area. I have never once seen a horse back riding group do any work. They trash the trails at Mount Spokane and all over Riverside Stare Park for example. They ride in the mud, and create post holes all over the place. Their horses crap all over the trails and all they do is complain about the mountain bikers. The only other group I’ve seen do work in the Greater Spokane Area is the Spokane Mountaineers.

 

[Hammsolo]

Hey wait a second…
I’ve never seen a biker with a chainsaw on their back riding in to clear downfall.
I’m not anti-cyclist. Anti millennial and Gen Z? Sure. But I love old ladies on bikes riding to tennis lessons.

I literally did that last year on my bike! Spokane had a huge windstorm, and I cleared trees all over the Bluff trails. I did get glared at by a grumpy old hiker…

 

[rwc101]

Never been part of trail work to "go faster." Whatever that means.

I have been part of trail work to make trails (made before the invention of mountain bikes) sustainable.

 

[JLS]

They trash the trails at Mount Spokane and all over Riverside Stare Park for example. They ride in the mud, and create post holes all over the place.

The horse folks at Riverside are fairly insufferable, aren’t they?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Never been part of trail work to "go faster." Whatever that means.

I have been part of trail work to make trails (made before the invention of mountain bikes) sustainable.

Banked turns with hay bales, jumps, pump tracks…


Don’t get me wrong the new version of haymaker is way more fun… but I rode all of it for a decade when it was basically a cow path on the BLM. It also, to be fair kept people from building pirate trails on the BLM… for a bit

With covid the pirate trail builders are back… the built trails just got to much use, too crowded.

These trails are also in one of the top draw units in the state for deer, in the sage/wintering grounds.

I ride them every time in home… and in the winter if they are dry… so guilty as sin.

 

[rwc101]

Banked turns with hay bales, jumps, pump tracks…
View attachment 205675

Don’t get me wrong the new version of haymaker is way more fun… but I rode all of it for a decade when it was basically a cow path on the BLM. It also, to be fair kept people from building pirate trails on the BLM… for a bit

With covid the pirate trail builders are back… the built trails just got to much use, too crowded.

These trails are also in one of the top draw units in the state for deer, in the sage/wintering grounds.

I ride them every time in home… and in the winter if they are dry… so guilty as sin.

Yeah, I have to admit that does happen especially with illegal trails/modifications. Not in the work I have done. Our local groups work hand in hand with the Forest Service and dismantle illegal trails and features.

 

[Hammsolo]

Banked turns with hay bales, jumps, pump tracks…
View attachment 205675

Don’t get me wrong the new version of haymaker is way more fun… but I rode all of it for a decade when it was basically a cow path on the BLM. It also, to be fair kept people from building pirate trails on the BLM… for a bit

With covid the pirate trail builders are back… the built trails just got to much use, too crowded.

These trails are also in one of the top draw units in the state for deer, in the sage/wintering grounds.

I ride them every time in home… and in the winter if they are dry… so guilty as sin.

I appreciate your honesty. I am no angel. It’s hard to resist wet trails…

Now, if you really want me to get fired up mention Frolfers (they prefer disc golfers). I do understand mountbiking isn’t perfect… however, most mountain bikers stick to designated trails. We also tend to clean up the woods and not litter. Frolfers…

 

[bullbugle307]

I think if you get outside of SE Wyoming you'll find Backcountry Horsemen are doing the vast majority of the volunteer trail work in Wyoming. But on the topic of SE Wyoming, when will there be enough trails to appease the mountain biking community there? All the FS trails just outside of Laramie weren't enough clearly. So they put bike trails all over Curt Gowdy. Then Glendo. Oh sorry hunters, state park rules say you can't hunt within 400 yards of a trail, not even shotgun for turkeys or archery for deer. Good luck finding a good place to hunt that's over 400 yards from a trail in those States Parks with all the new bike trails. Sure there's North Crow, but that'll be next in the crosshairs I'm sure. Then they built trails all over North Park in Cheyenne. Then you've got all the new trails on the East end of Laramie. When is enough enough?

On top of that you've got the mountain bikers that ride illegally in Wilderness. Every time I hit the Baby Lake trail in the Huston Park wilderness there's tracks from mountain bikes. I can't tell you how many mountain bikers I know that are chomping at the bit to get bikes allowed in Wilderness. I even worked with a GF biologist that wanted mountain bikes in Wilderness.

If we were to say right now, there's enough mountain bike trails in SE Wyoming, I wouldn't be nearly as salty about it. But I wouldn't count on that knowing a lot of people in the mountain biking community. My money's on them getting bored with what they have and asking for more. Call it a gripe fest against mountain bikers if that's your prerogative, but the fact of the matter is the last decade has seen a huge proliferation of new bike trails in SE Wyoming. I don't want to see that trend continue for several more decades.

 

[DouglasR]

We also tend to clean up the woods and not litter. Frolfers…

Not trying to start an argument but this summer after the endurance race the mtb guys were all on Facebook patting each other on the back for leaving a minimal amount of trash on the trails throughout the race and I went out there a week later and found 4 fluorescent pink marking flags that have been there since trail construction was completed over a year ago that they apparently missed.
But to be fair if you go walk the edge of the prairie there’s all kinds of piss products laying around.

 

[elkduds]

I appreciate your honesty. I am no angel. It’s hard to resist wet trails…

Now, if you really want me to get fired up mention Frolfers (they prefer disc golfers). I do understand mountbiking isn’t perfect… however, most mountain bikers stick to designated trails. We also tend to clean up the woods and not litter. Frolfers…

Do you yield right of way to hikers and horses every time? Meaning do you pass only when they indicate, stop to let them pass, dismount for horses passing? No, yelling some version of 'on your right' is not yielding right of way on trails.

 

[TOGIE]

every use group is imperfect and carries many rightful negative stereotypes.

but if the average mentality of the "avid" mountain biking community had their way every wilderness area would be dismantled, no new wilderness areas would be created, every drainage from durango to cheyenne would be filled with trails, all state wildlife areas in colorado would ultimately be opened to mountain biking year round, etc.

i've had too many arguments with too many mountain bikers i've known for over a decate about why wilderness areas don't need bikes; why existing wilderness area don't need potentially double or triple the user load of people going deeper and faster; why it's not good to oppose wilderness areas for no reason other than i want to ride my bike there, even though you've never even effing ridden your bike there before they talked about making it a wilderness area; why more trails isn't always a good thing for wildlife habitat (not they give a chit about the wildlife habitat), and why some places are better left simply as they are.

i'm sorry, the mtb community has lost my respect. i couldn't give a rats ass how much trail work they do.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So ummm topic and hand…

This whole crowding in the west thing is a real deal.

 

[DouglasR]

So ummm topic and hand…

This whole crowding in the west thing is a real deal.

And the Midwest.
We need more public land.
We have to start shaming jimmy John until he gives us the sangamon.

 

[JLS]

i'm sorry, the mtb community has lost my respect. i couldn't give a rats ass how much trail work they do.

As an MTB guy, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, I look at how the hunting community could also be painted with the same brush.

My brother and I are diametrically opposed in regards to bikes in wilderness. We still have fun riding together.

 

[Hammsolo]

I think if you get outside of SE Wyoming you'll find Backcountry Horsemen are doing the vast majority of the volunteer trail work in Wyoming. But on the topic of SE Wyoming, when will there be enough trails to appease the mountain biking community there? All the FS trails just outside of Laramie weren't enough clearly. So they put bike trails all over Curt Gowdy. Then Glendo. Oh sorry hunters, state park rules say you can't hunt within 400 yards of a trail, not even shotgun for turkeys or archery for deer. Good luck finding a good place to hunt that's over 400 yards from a trail in those States Parks with all the new bike trails. Sure there's North Crow, but that'll be next in the crosshairs I'm sure. Then they built trails all over North Park in Cheyenne. Then you've got all the new trails on the East end of Laramie. When is enough enough?

On top of that you've got the mountain bikers that ride illegally in Wilderness. Every time I hit the Baby Lake trail in the Huston Park wilderness there's tracks from mountain bikes. I can't tell you how many mountain bikers I know that are chomping at the bit to get bikes allowed in Wilderness. I even worked with a GF biologist that wanted mountain bikes in Wilderness.

If we were to say right now, there's enough mountain bike trails in SE Wyoming, I wouldn't be nearly as salty about it. But I wouldn't count on that knowing a lot of people in the mountain biking community. My money's on them getting bored with what they have and asking for more. Call it a gripe fest against mountain bikers if that's your prerogative, but the fact of the matter is the last decade has seen a huge proliferation of new bike trails in SE Wyoming. I don't want to see that trend continue for several more decades.

That’s awesome about the horsemen. I think we all need to care for the areas we use.

I believe bikes shouldn’t be allowed in wilderness areas, and honestly I wonder if non-native species should be allowed.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

As an MTB guy, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, I look at how the hunting community could also be painted with the same brush.

My brother and I are diametrically opposed in regards to bikes in wilderness. We still have fun riding together.

Hunting community in Eagle lost their minds about wilderness area expansion and got stickers for their trucks made.

Cause you know no 4wheelers…

So yes paint away.

 

[bullbugle307]

As an MTB guy, I agree with a lot of what you said. But, I look at how the hunting community could also be painted with the same brush.

My brother and I are diametrically opposed in regards to bikes in wilderness. We still have fun riding together.

Your not wrong. A lot of hunters are slobs. But we have a lot of regulatory mechanisms to keep our impact in check. Whether or not state agencies do that is another story sadly.

But where are those regulatory mechanisms for other user groups? Largely non existent.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That’s awesome about the horsemen. I think we all need to care for the areas we use.

I believe bikes shouldn’t be allowed in wilderness areas, and honestly I wonder if non-native species should be allowed.

I second that, no Texans in wilderness