Looking for suggestions on a new caliber

[Floridagt500]

Theres more than a few people here that despise anything new or especially newer technology.

Any modern design to shoot longer longer heavier/slower bullets doesnt have many fans here.

I don’t get it. If you have something that works and don’t see a point in changing that, fine, but being upset and hating something new that is enhanced and is indeed better is just ridiculous.

260 was new at one time too (just over 30 years ago commercially) and is not a bad cartridge today and was a great cartridge in its day. Makes you wonder if the reason it didn’t catch on more was people hating it because it was new and unnecessary in their mind and it didn’t have a huge marketing machine behind it promoting it like the Creedmoor has.

If I had it my way the 6.5x47 would be what the Creedmoor is today.

 

[brymoore]

@brymoore,

People have taken elk with the 257 Roberts for years now.

People have also taken elk with 243 Win.

I’ve shot elk with a 257 Roberts. It’s not my first choice of elk rifles but I’d hunt confident I could kill whatever elk gave me an opportunity.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I don’t get it. If you have something that works and don’t see a point in changing that, fine, but being upset and hating something new that is enhanced and is indeed better is just ridiculous.

260 was new at one time too (just over 30 years ago commercially) and is not a bad cartridge today and was a great cartridge in its day. Makes you wonder if the reason it didn’t catch on more was people hating it because it was new and unnecessary in their mind and it didn’t have a huge marketing machine behind it promoting it like the Creedmoor has.

If I had it my way the 6.5x47 would be what the Creedmoor is today.

260 didnt have the bullets in its day, less twist rate (1 in 9 vs 1 in 8 saami spec) and has 18 percent less head height (.9023 vs .765), and the same powder capacity so imho its an unideal choice today. It didnt do enough differently than other available cartridges. I know someone will tell me you can throat a chamber longer and still get it in an aics/short mag box.

6.5x47 is cool - ahead of its time and basically copied in concept and marketed successfully by Hornady. I could be convinced its better than the copy.

 

[std7mag]

@Floridagt500,

I don't actually hate the 6.5 CM.
It's actually an excellent cartridge that works well within it's confines.

Let's look at it objectively, not emotionally.

We have both described it as being designed for match shooting.

Your statement of it being designed for a short action really holds no water.
The 260 Rem has been used in short action bolt rifles for years.

A match shooter doesn't give a hoot if it's longer than the SAAMI 2.80" COAL. They will typically spec reamers with specific freebore and neck diameter.

It is when you get to the MSR platform and PRS matches where issues with the 260 Rem showed up.
Remember, benchrest and F Class do single loading. Many with a loading port on the left side and the ejection port on the right side.
They don't have a magazine.

So now we have 2 platforms that use detachable magazines. (3 now with NRL Hunter matches)
With the long, heavy match bullets there is the issue with the 260 Rem that to fit it in the confines of a detachable magazine the bullet was pushed down into the powder column.

The answer, use a shorter case.
By "improving" the case, and steepening the shoulder angle, you can get almost the same case capacity as the 260 Rem.

In a bolt rifle, with the chamber throated for the heavy, long bullet, the 260 Rem does have a slightly greater case capacity.

My issue with the 6.5CM isn't with the cartridge itself, or the people that like it. It was one of the greatest advertising campaigns ever created.

My issue is with the rifle and ammo manufacturers that jumped whole hog into it.

Looking for a donor rifle in 7mm-08 the other year, you could buy any manufacturer and model you wanted. As long as you chose between 6.5 CM, or 350 Legend.

 

[Floridagt500]

2) I love to hate on the 6.5 Manbun!!!
It absolutely blows my mind that so many people fell for the advertising BS that it's any better than the 260 Rem.

@Floridagt500,

I don't actually hate the 6.5 CM.
It's actually an excellent cartridge that works well within it's confines.

Let's look at it objectively, not emotionally.

We have both described it as being designed for match shooting.

Your statement of it being designed for a short action really holds no water.
The 260 Rem has been used in short action bolt rifles for years.

A match shooter doesn't give a hoot if it's longer than the SAAMI 2.80" COAL. They will typically spec reamers with specific freebore and neck diameter.

It is when you get to the MSR platform and PRS matches where issues with the 260 Rem showed up.
Remember, benchrest and F Class do single loading. Many with a loading port on the left side and the ejection port on the right side.
They don't have a magazine.

So now we have 2 platforms that use detachable magazines. (3 now with NRL Hunter matches)
With the long, heavy match bullets there is the issue with the 260 Rem that to fit it in the confines of a detachable magazine the bullet was pushed down into the powder column.

The answer, use a shorter case.
By "improving" the case, and steepening the shoulder angle, you can get almost the same case capacity as the 260 Rem.

In a bolt rifle, with the chamber throated for the heavy, long bullet, the 260 Rem does have a slightly greater case capacity.

My issue with the 6.5CM isn't with the cartridge itself, or the people that like it. It was one of the greatest advertising campaigns ever created.

My issue is with the rifle and ammo manufacturers that jumped whole hog into it.

Looking for a donor rifle in 7mm-08 the other year, you could buy any manufacturer and model you wanted. As long as you chose between 6.5 CM, or 350 Legend.

Seems you have trouble making up your mind whether to hate it or not since you’ve now said you do and you don’t, and whether it has advantages over the 260 when you said it doesn’t but then you acknowledge it does at least when mag fed. Seems you don’t have a clue but you seem to suggest I’m being emotional.

You bring up BR like it’s popular there and has any relevance when it has never been popular for that discipline where 6.5-284 and 6.5x47L has reigned supreme for 6.5mm options. If anything it has seen more spotlight in F-class which you don’t seem to mention but even there has never been very popular. It had a brief popularity in long range field style matches in the early 2000’s when 308 was the main player and people figured out they could game the system a little bit with 243 and 260 but then the Creedmoors came along and they faded into history. Weird, huh? It’s almost like the Creedmoors are superior when it comes to accuracy.

The 260 and 6.5CM were designed to be SA bolt cartridges and both were adapted into other realms, the 6.5CM just does everything better. Yes it has higher case capacity and it gets less velocity with that higher case capacity because it’s less efficient burning it’s powder.

 

[Floridagt500]

260 didnt have the bullets in its day, less twist rate (1 in 9 vs 1 in 8 saami spec) and has 18 percent less head height (.9023 vs .765), and the same powder capacity so imho its an unideal choice today. It didnt do enough differently than other available cartridges. I know someone will tell me you can throat a chamber longer and still get it in an aics/short mag box.

6.5x47 is cool - ahead of its time and basically copied in concept and marketed successfully by Hornady. I could be convinced its better than the copy.

I like that it works so well with Varget on up to the heaviest bullets. It’s just such an easy and consistent powder to work with compared to H4350 and the other powders that work best with the creed. You can make Varget work with them but it’s not ideal. It’s 6.5x47 is also just such an easy cartridge to load for (part of that being the Varget aspect) and doesn’t require a lot of load development much like the 6BR.