Loan for hunting

[Gellar]

Seems to be some near me, more so 3 years old for about 35k

That must be that new math the kids are doing these days 3 years old for 35k does not equal 2 years old for 30k.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I tried to think about the concept independently of the amount…it’s really the idea of borrowing for an experience. To some $1000 is a lot, others $30,000 is a lot.

I wouldn’t do it personally. To me there would be too much risk that whatever high I was buying wasn’t enough higher than other more accessible options. I find so much fulfillment in a variety of really excellent outdoor adventures, hunting and not, that I couldn’t talk myself into it. I’m batting 1.000 on having great hunting adventures for about the last 18 years, none of which would be considered expensive out of pocket.

That said, most of us make choices every year that aren’t financially advantageous in order to hunt more, or how we want…so maybe that’s hypocritical.

In the long run I guess it comes back around to the specific cost vs expendable income. If it’s high enough to require a loan, I don’t think I’d do it personally.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

Life is always a balance of smelling the roses along the way versus mowing dandelions. I am 72, no longer able to DIY physical hunts or even outfitted due to health, maybe surgery will help I dunno. I have done a fair share of outfitted hunts for elk and mule deer and glad I did when I was able to. Big Fin is 100%, health will run out before money. Tomorrow is completely unknown, if you have even a sliver of chance to do whatever (hunt, trip of lifetime et al), highly reconsider. If you can afford the installment without wrecking your financial family obligations, the memories versus the regret will be with you forever.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Bunch of dream stealers here.

cur·mudg·eon

I'm still paying off hunts from years ago. Hopefully, the current administration will absolve me from my debts.

 

[RobertD]

Right? Where's the line between doing something you've dreamed about and chasing a happiness you'll never find? If you can't be happy, excited, content with what you have, why will a 30-60k trip change that? But then again, my Mom always wanted to go to Africa, so in 2017 they went, she's perfectly content to never go again, will die happy, having checked off every box on her life list.

I think the line, and where it's located, has a lot to do with someone like your mom, for example, doing something she wanted for HER, and not for what other people think. So much of what we get worked up about in hunting is based on others' perception IMO. Not directed at OP just an opinion of mine.

 

[Big Fin]

Interesting to read each comment. I can place myself in shoes of every comment, at sometime during my life. Given everyone has different circumstances, I'm not sure I have anything to add. But, I'll give the story of how hunting dreams happened for me.

Mostly, I was lucky. Here's what I mean by that.

At age 30 I had that moment where I realized how much I loved the adventure of new places and that hunting was the activity that peaked my spirits more than anything I could do on those landscapes I dreamed of. I went through some of these same gyrations to try figure out how I could do some of the things I dreamed of.

Given I was building a new business and every penny of my balance sheet went to funding that, borrowing for hunting was not an option. Even with my motto to hunt while you can, I just had to adjust the "hunting while you can" to be something local and low cost.

I knew if my businesses turned out OK and I got all my debt paid off, someday I would want to chase a few of those hunting dreams. So, with the benefit of time, and hopefully enough health, I had to make a longer term plan. Mrs. Fin and I went through the budget. When I was done, there was $200 of monthly items I could do without or defer to some later date. She was good with me allocating that toward a hunting budget. That was a lot of money for me in 1994. At the beginning, most of it was "loaned" to western states during application season, only to be returned when draw results showed me unsuccessful.

I kept living frugally. I kept to the monthly allocation of $200 per month, no matter the temptation to spend on something else. I kept to my plan of debt retirement, driving older vehicles, no fancy vacations, and a lot of other things that I deemed lower priority. I used this analysis, "Is this worth never getting to hunt Mountain Caribou in the Cassiars?" Usually the frivolous expense didn't meet the threshold, so I didn't spend the money on it.

As time went by and the house got paid off, the business loans got paid off, the office building got paid off, we replaced old vehicles with new ones bought with cash, college savings secured, the situation became a lot different. It was almost an epiphany when one day I realized what $200 per month had built to over 15 years. "Someday" had come. I would likely get to hunt Mountain Caribou in the Cassiars, if I would get the courage to spend some of it.

Here is where I have regrets of how I did that. I waited longer than I should have to dip into that fund for the "dreams." I was too much of an accountant tight ass. My liver blew up about the time I had enough to do the Cassiar hunt, but I felt irresponsible spending it on a hunt with a pretty big long-term health issue staring me in the face. Finally, after 25 years, Mrs. Fin asked, "You going hunting with that money, or you gonna die with it? For a guy who preaches "Hunt when you can," you're not making much progress."

Ouch! That fund was my safety net that I would always be able to apply to any western state and go on other hunts I truly enjoyed. I know, not rational thinking, but it was 25 years before I started spending some of it. The cost of inflation to the hunts of my dreams was much higher than the returns I could get on those funds. If I had went on that Caribou hunt when I first had enough set aside, I could have saved a ton of money by doing it when those hunts were more reasonable. I probably could have had a better Dall Sheep hunt, as I could have went before I morphed into an over-the-hill desk jockey with a bum liver who thought he would die when he finally got deep into the Wrangells.

I have replaced the money that was spent on the Mountain Caribou hunt and the Dall Sheep hunt. I look at that allocation of funds and realize I'm not getting any younger. The last couple years has confirmed what the Mayo warned me about the eventual outcomes of my liver condition, which has forced me to look at how I can deplete this fund for more hunting dreams. I have booked another Mountain Caribou hunt (2025) in the Yukon, a place I've always dreamed of hunting. I've booked a hunt with Gana River to hunt the McKenzie Mountains (2024), another place I've always dreamed of. I hope to improve on Mrs. Fin's lecture that I wasn't exemplifying my "Hunt when you can" mantra.

I doubt that adds any value to this discussion. Life is an assessment and balance of risks. Life is a weird string of happenstance where luck, good or bad, plays a huge role in how well our plans turn out. Yeah, we can work hard, plan well, but if we have a bad string of luck, the results of that hard work and taking risk can be lessened. Thus the axiom we learn from experience, "Life isn't fair."

Each person is going to assess the posed scenario differently. Single or married, kids or not, age/health at this point of your life, etc. I was lucky that I was young when I had the revelation that these hunting dreams would require a financial commitment on my part. That put time on my side. If I had that revelation 10 or 15 years later, it would have been a different story. I had a spouse that was completely on board. I only had one child. Etc. Etc. My situation is different than many others. So, my answer is likely not relevant to what others would/should do to realize their hunting dreams, given they have a different set of circumstances.

A long ramble and I didn't even answer the question.

 

[Addicting]

I had a conversation with my hunting buddy tonight about this. Cost, time, inflation, health, retirement goals, and wives expectations. It was a good conversation to start the process of him seriously discussing a trip to the wife.

Both of us have a known amount of inheritance set aside which covers it. That is the easy button but neither of us are banking anything on it till becomes ours. A backup plan if we still have debt.

So with booking several years out that still leaves the question of pay what we have now to reserve a spot. Then let the balance and cards fall where they do even if that means finance or continue to wait till the funds are completely saved.

 

[Redman]

Cash is king. Save your money, sell unused or u wanted equipment, and live a year without eating out. Call around and check for cheaper hunts that have been canceled a d the outfitter is wanting to fill a spot at a discounted price. Debt inslaves you.

 

[mrcowboy]

Another idea would be paying the $12k or so an outfitter like Papa Bear is charging and go moose hunt. You will get a moose.

Then on a separate hunt go DIY caribou hunting or even hire an outfitter in Canada if it must be a mountain caribou. If I had money to burn on caribou hunting, I’d do a horseback hunt with Arctic Red or Gana River in the NWT.

Rented equipment from papa bear for DIY float fish trip. Great operation. I spoke to them about moose. Willing to go with them but no NR caribou tags in that area as I understand. Like to do it but kind of want to.do the fish trip again. It was dynamite.

 

[Redman]

Interesting to read each comment. I can place myself in shoes of every comment, at sometime during my life. Given everyone has different circumstances, I'm not sure I have anything to add. But, I'll give the story of how hunting dreams happened for me.

Mostly, I was lucky. Here's what I mean by that.

At age 30 I had that moment where I realized how much I loved the adventure of new places and that hunting was the activity that peaked my spirits more than anything I could do on those landscapes I dreamed of. I went through some of these same gyrations to try figure out how I could do some of the things I dreamed of.

Given I was building a new business and every penny of my balance sheet went to funding that, borrowing for hunting was not an option. Even with my motto to hunt while you can, I just had to adjust the "hunting while you can" to be something local and low cost.

I knew if my businesses turned out OK and I got all my debt paid off, someday I would want to chase a few of those hunting dreams. So, with the benefit of time, and hopefully enough health, I had to make a longer term plan. Mrs. Fin and I went through the budget. When I was done, there was $200 of monthly items I could do without or defer to some later date. She was good with me allocating that toward a hunting budget. That was a lot of money for me in 1994. At the beginning, most of it was "loaned" to western states during application season, only to be returned when draw results showed me unsuccessful.

I kept living frugally. I kept to the monthly allocation of $200 per month, no matter the temptation to spend on something else. I kept to my plan of debt retirement, driving older vehicles, no fancy vacations, and a lot of other things that I deemed lower priority. I used this analysis, "Is this worth never getting to hunt Mountain Caribou in the Cassiars?" Usually the frivolous expense didn't meet the threshold, so I didn't spend the money on it.

As time went by and the house got paid off, the business loans got paid off, the office building got paid off, we replaced old vehicles with new ones bought with cash, college savings secured, the situation became a lot different. It was almost an epiphany when one day I realized what $200 per month had built to over 15 years. "Someday" had come. I would likely get to hunt Mountain Caribou in the Cassiars, if I would get the courage to spend some of it.

Here is where I have regrets of how I did that. I waited longer than I should have to dip into that fund for the "dreams." I was too much of an accountant tight ass. My liver blew up about the time I had enough to do the Cassiar hunt, but I felt irresponsible spending it on a hunt with a pretty big long-term health issue staring me in the face. Finally, after 25 years, Mrs. Fin asked, "You going hunting with that money, or you gonna die with it? For a guy who preaches "Hunt when you can," you're not making much progress."

Ouch! That fund was my safety net that I would always be able to apply to any western state and go on other hunts I truly enjoyed. I know, not rational thinking, but it was 25 years before I started spending some of it. The cost of inflation to the hunts of my dreams was much higher than the returns I could get on those funds. If I had went on that Caribou hunt when I first had enough set aside, I could have saved a ton of money by doing it when those hunts were more reasonable. I probably could have had a better Dall Sheep hunt, as I could have went before I morphed into an over-the-hill desk jockey with a bum liver who thought he would die when he finally got deep into the Wrangells.

I have replaced the money that was spent on the Mountain Caribou hunt and the Dall Sheep hunt. I look at that allocation of funds and realize I'm not getting any younger. The last couple years has confirmed what the Mayo warned me about the eventual outcomes of my liver condition, which has forced me to look at how I can deplete this fund for more hunting dreams. I have booked another Mountain Caribou hunt (2025) in the Yukon, a place I've always dreamed of hunting. I've booked a hunt with Gana River to hunt the McKenzie Mountains (2024), another place I've always dreamed of. I hope to improve on Mrs. Fin's lecture that I wasn't exemplifying my "Hunt when you can" mantra.

I doubt that adds any value to this discussion. Life is an assessment and balance of risks. Life is a weird string of happenstance where luck, good or bad, plays a huge role in how well our plans turn out. Yeah, we can work hard, plan well, but if we have a bad string of luck, the results of that hard work and taking risk can be lessened. Thus the axiom we learn from experience, "Life isn't fair."

Each person is going to assess the posed scenario differently. Single or married, kids or not, age/health at this point of your life, etc. I was lucky that I was young when I had the revelation that these hunting dreams would require a financial commitment on my part. That put time on my side. If I had that revelation 10 or 15 years later, it would have been a different story. I had a spouse that was completely on board. I only had one child. Etc. Etc. My situation is different than many others. So, my answer is likely not relevant to what others would/should do to realize their hunting dreams, given they have a different set of circumstances.

A long ramble and I didn't even answer the question.

This is the most sensible advice I have heard! Pay off the debts you have now and more money will come at a greater and faster rate. Once you own everything you are not a slave to debt and can afford to do what you want with your money.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I would not enjoy coming home from a vacation and still have to pay for part of it. My wife wants us to do a 10k return trip to Maui. My response was I would not enjoy dropping that money when there's still a mortgage to pay off. Compromise was let's plow through that mortgage in 7 years, then go to Maui. We're now <3 years of doing both.

My big expensive someday hunting trip is outfitted bull moose. I realize by the time I save up for it the price will be double or worse. I'm fine with that. Having zero debt will make it easy to sock away cash quickly. Retirement and kid's college are on track, so zero guilt in splurging on fun.

Mathematically, I'd come out ahead by taking out a loan and doing the hunt now, but that bottom line is far down on my list of priorities. Peace of mind, discipline, self-satisfaction, setting a good example for my kids, and well-earned rewards all rank above. The subjective weight of those things feels different to different people, though.

 

[Bambistew]

I'd go for it and take out a loan if you have your heart set on it. Set up a side hustle or just pay it down. People buy vehicles that are worthless in 10 years.

Those hunts are not getting any cheaper, and demand is way higher than supply for about everything.It's stupid what they go for now. I've guided bou hunts in AK at $14,000 now. Those "mountain" caribou hunts are really expensive. You can hunt the same ones in AK for much less. They're the same bou...

I'm considering the same, but taking the family to Tanzania or similar. Life is too short.

Not sure I’d pay $850 again for a dall tag let alone go guided.

If I was a AK resident I’d definitely go every year, but I didn’t think it was some epic special thing.

Moose on the other hand, totally a $5000-$8000 experience.

Those are fighting words. Moose is probably the most boring hunt you can do in AK on a dollar to experience value, IMO. 10 days of looking at the same 3 hillsides in nasty weather gets old really fast. I've only been on half a dozen flyout moose hunts and a bunch of others off the road, but I 100% would rather hunt sheep caribou or deer over moose given the choice. Moose hunting is an afterthought for me.

Everyone had their own expectations and experience.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Those are fighting words. Moose is probably the most boring hunt you can do in AK on a dollar to experience value, IMO. 10 days of looking at the same 3 hillsides in nasty weather gets old really fast. I've only been on half a dozen flyout moose hunts and a bunch of others off the road, but I 100% would rather hunt sheep caribou or deer over moose given the choice. Moose hunting is an afterthought for me.

Everyone had their own expectations and experience.

I think having someone say “shoot that one” would basically make sheep hunting zero fun for me, esp for $40k or whatever crazy number it is now.

$5000-$8000 seems like a very reasonable price to get a moose to my car for me.

If that makes sense.

 

[SwaggyD]

I'm pretty much at the point that I'm probably never gonna buy or do a 30k adventure unless I win an opportunity.

Funny you say this. I had planned on going to hunt moose for by 40th birthday. Won that goat hunt this past fall and that hunt is out the window. Not complaining, but I want to kill a damn moose!!

 

[rmyoung1]

Those are fighting words. Moose is probably the most boring hunt you can do in AK on a dollar to experience value, IMO. 10 days of looking at the same 3 hillsides in nasty weather gets old really fast. I've only been on half a dozen flyout moose hunts and a bunch of others off the road, but I 100% would rather hunt sheep caribou or deer over moose given the choice. Moose hunting is an afterthought for me.

Everyone had their own expectations and experience.

Please, someone, start a thread where we hash out this debate and beat it into the ground. For the sake of those of us who haven’t done either, but would like to do both, we need this discussion. @wllm ‘s comments shocked me because I’ve always operated under the assumption that @Bambistew just articulated. Staring at a swamp for a week seemed lame compared to climbing and walking ridge tops, glassing for white dots on the horizon. But… on the other hand… I’m terrified that I will break down and raid the kids’ college fund for the chance at a Dall ram and then be super disgusted with myself when I got home.

Some of us need this chat…

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Please, someone, start a thread where we hash out this debate and beat it into the ground. For the sake of those of us who haven’t done either, but would like to do both, we need this discussion. @wllm ‘s comments shocked me because I’ve always operated under the assumption that @Bambistew just articulated. Staring at a swamp for a week seemed lame compared to climbing and walking ridge tops, glassing for white dots on the horizon. But… on the other hand… I’m terrified that I will break down and raid the kids’ college fund for the chance at a Dall ram and then be super disgusted with myself when I got home.

Some of us need this chat…

If there were a native sheep species in the swamps of NE would you pay $40k to hunt it?

Don’t get me wrong I apply for bighorn sheep tags… but is it really that different than muley hunting? Don’t they basically share all the same habitat.

Colorado weather is waaaay better than AK.

You can’t draw a moose tag in the lower 48, and they’re like $2000+ now just for the tag.

Therefore given the logic above, hunt muleys in the high country, moose in AK and just skip the sheep.

Caribou, also do that…

 

[EYJONAS!]

Funny you say this. I had planned on going to hunt moose for by 40th birthday. Won that goat hunt this past fall and that hunt is out the window. Not complaining, but I want to kill a damn moose!!

Canada¿?

There's some awesome DIY stuff available. The bulls that come from the lodge where my BIL works are awesome. Shit most the time they do better than the guides . He's mostly the brown bear guy though.

Would be an awesome adventure to have an opportunity like that goat hunt, was really happy you were able to go on that.

The opportunities are endless on adventure but that north country stuff continues to slip farther and farther away

 

[rmyoung1]

If there were a native sheep species in the swamps of NE would you pay $40k to hunt it?

Uhhhh. No.

You can’t draw a moose tag in the lower 48, and they’re like $2000+ now just for the tag.

Lemon juice in the paper cut, bruh. I’m aware.

Caribou, also do that…

I have. Sorta like pronghorn on the tundra, no?

See…. I need this.

 

[manitou1]

Inflation was 8.7% last quarter so the real question is where is the breaking point where that 5% saves you money if you spent the 30k now.

I still would like to see how "they" come up with those fibs... er... figures.
Eggs have quadrupled in price, gas was over double and still is about 50% over what it was a three years ago. Primers have gone up 500%, hamburger is up 400%, car rentals up 150%, new truck purchase prices have gone up 20%, chicken is almost double, homes increased about 25% in our area, new truck tires increased 15-20%, motor oil up 20%, a meal in a restaurant has gone up about 12% here.
I just don't use the same math as the "build back better folks".

 

[DouglasR]

Saint Peter! Look at all this money I saved and what a good boy I was!
Look at all these hours I spent at my desk!!!