Leupold VX-III CDS

[Sytes]

Average joe question... what is a B&C?

Great to read all the deep intel of why what works for you. I have always (90%) kept my shots at a max of 250 yrds... I have a stock model Simmons scope that works just fine for that range without getting immersed into the discussions going on here. I do not have problems with light and it works fine...

I suppose without experiencing the advantages you guys are speaking about, I don't know what I am missing... HOWEVER, from the conversation here, I understand a bit more of the advantages and know of times I wish I had that comfort for a 300-400yrd shot... I watched a huge bull (6x) at 600 yrds (approx). I tried to move in and the closest I could get and still have a view was about 375-400 yrds. I can see how having the CDS - I would have my lifetime contender bull. Well, I moved in to try and get to my personal ethical range (for my skill level) and never saw him again. I hit the area the next two days... no joy.
I would imagine to have crosshairs on target at that 375-400yrd - it is a matter of situating the rifle into a still position. I can certainly see how this CDS deal would open my "sportsman ethical" range out to a distance I have watched though not shot elk in the past.

I see the advantage - just a question of the price, steep. I imagine this will be something I will consider saving for to install pre 2011 season. Jeffpg, referred to some additional promotion pre-Jan 2011... I may have to go to the "secret stash" - though still evaluating the price point for the advantage it offers.

 

[mtmiller]

Average joe question... what is a B&C?

http://www.boone-crockett.org/news/news_leupold.asp?area=news

 

[BuzzH]

Sytes, the B&C reticle is the one that Miller posted pictures of...I would suggest looking at the leupold site and read up on it. I'd probably confuse the issue more than help.

As to 300-400 yard shots, I personally dont think you need anything special to get you there.

What I've been doing for the last 10 years is just sighting dead on at 300 yards. But, for my system to work, I have to be aware that at my rifles highest point in its trajectory is just over 4 inches high. So, knowing that, I typically place my leupold dot on the heart, just behind the elbow on all big-game up to about 250 yards. I place my dot dead on where I want to hit at 300-350...at 400 I place the top of the dot on the top of the back. Longer ranges than that I'm currently using "hold over"...and thats just a SWAG at best, based off my drop chart, and shooting steel up to 550 at the range.

It a deadly sytem for me on big-game up to 400 yards and I dont need anything special to get me there.

Where I've been in a rut for the last 3-4 years is 400+. Mainly because holdover becomes difficult at those ranges.

After having talked with Breaksrunner about the turrets...a couple things he said came in crystal clear.

1. When shooting longer ranges, trying to use hold over is not very precise and not very repeatable, as you arent holding your cross hair, dot, whatvever on a precise point. Multi reticle scopes compensate some for that, but not to the precision that a turret would. With a turret, you dial in your dope and hold directly on the place you want to hit. I believe its a lot easier to hit a target shooting at a precise aiming point, and I think most people would agree. It helps my focus and concentration when I'm not trying to estimate holdover.

2. Another key point that was made that in the case of hunting trophy game, or once-in-a-lifetime tags, being able to be 100% confident at longer ranges could mean the difference between success and not. I dont ever want to have to shoot very far at anything, but I also live in reality and know how I operate. If I had say, a desert sheep tag, and on the last half hour of the last day of the hunt a ram steps out at 550 yards, he's going to get shot at from 550 unless I can close the distance some how. Knowing that I'll take the shot with whatever system I have...I think it makes a lot of sense to not be limited by your equipment. Further, since I know right now that I'd take that shot, it also makes sense for me to be practicing that kind of stuff and having the proper equipment to get me there. Exactly why I've made the decision to use turrets and commiting to some serious range time. I'm in a position right now, where I'll have some great tags headed my way. I want to maximize the opportunities and give myself the best possible chance at a successful hunt.

I will always be an advocate of getting as close as possible, and for a vast majority of hunters, myself included, getting closer will always be the best and first option I try. I'd rather risk spooking an animal and getting closer than shooting longer range than I'm comfortable with and wounding one.

I think the turrets are just another viable tool that could be a good thing if its practiced and kept within the limitations of the hunter, rifle, and conditions...

 

[belly-deep]

Its a shame the CDS don't come with a pill that hunters could take that will make them PRACTICE...me thinks more animals will be wounded thanks to these CDS dials. It will likely give people a false boost of confidence "OK, all I have to do is spin this turret and bam! I'm deadly to 700 yards..." Just because your scope caps say you can do it, it doesn 't mean you can.

For the hunters who will practice, however, these things should be great. I think I'll put one on my 7STW. The B&C crosshair should be fine for my other guns, since I don't really want to shoot beyond 400 or so with them.

 

[Ultrahunter]

This maybe a dumb question but, can a guy have both the B&C reticle and turrets on the same scope? B&C for the quick shots and turrets for the occasion that you have a little time to dial exact yardage?

 

[SagebrushSlayer]

Well I ordered up the scope today. I Skyped with the wife and had her call Leupolds customer service for me (Can't call 1800 #'s over here). Customer service says since the scopes are on backorder, they will accept ballistic data after the 31st as long as the CC payment is received before 12/31.

I can understand there will be a small amount of hunters who see a max distance on their turret for the caliber and try shooting out to that range or near that range. I will also assume that average hunters who educate themselves in ballistics and practice more than a couple weeks before the season aren't looking to go shoot animals out too the max they think they can shoot.

I agree with BuzzH and anyone else who tries getting as close to the game before settling in for the shot. Now I'm sure like most hunters I don't always get the comfort of setting up on game for the shot. But realistically I don't know of anyone who would be walking their hunting grounds with the dial turned up.

Thanks for all the input and advice. I searched the threads about gunsmiths in the Boise area and see that Elite in Nampa is a recommendation. I will call the shop when I get back to the states for some triggerwork on my 25-06. I will post my review and thought on the scope sometime after next hunting season.

 

[Calvin]

Randy,

Have you had any trouble with the dial twisting while you are hiking? A guy over on 24hourcampfire was complaining about that happening.

It would really be a PITA to have a quick shot at 200 yards and try to turn that thing back down from 600 yards or something if it got twisted while you were walking.

That was me. I had CDS turrets consistently move off zero (as much as 4 moa) when hiking with the rifle slung across my back through thick cover that required a lot of crawling over and under stuff. I suspect it was the rifle bouncing around on my back and the turret was rubbing up against my kifaru longhunter and turning. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Big Fin]

Its a shame the CDS don't come with a pill that hunters could take that will make them PRACTICE...me thinks more animals will be wounded thanks to these CDS dials. It will likely give people a false boost of confidence "OK, all I have to do is spin this turret and bam! I'm deadly to 700 yards..." Just because your scope caps say you can do it, it doesn 't mean you can.

For the hunters who will practice, however, these things should be great. I think I'll put one on my 7STW. The B&C crosshair should be fine for my other guns, since I don't really want to shoot beyond 400 or so with them.

Me thinks you had the answer when you mentioned "Hunters who will practice.....".

No animals will be wounded thanks to these CDS dials or thanks to any turret system. Like you said, it will be due to hunters who fail to practice, not due to some mechanical device.

Practice helps you get better, but more importantly, tells you what your effective range should be.

I think I know the point you were trying to make. Some guys will think these are a substitute for practice, skill, and time at the range. And as such, these lazy folks will create their share of carnage, the same as these guys do with every device they think will make up for their laziness.

 

[Spitz]

Ultrahunter;

I had asked the same question previously in the post in case you missed it. The answer is yes, you can have the B&C reticle and the CDS dial on your scope. I will be sending my 4.5-14 LR scope in as soon as I can chronograph my loads. Thinking it should be a great setup.

 

[ARO]

I have one on my Weatherby sub-moa 300 mag, and I really like it.

 

[Ultrahunter]

Ultrahunter;

I had asked the same question previously in the post in case you missed it. The answer is yes, you can have the B&C reticle and the CDS dial on your scope. I will be sending my 4.5-14 LR scope in as soon as I can chronograph my loads. Thinking it should be a great setup.

I did miss that, thanks for the reply. Great minds think alike huh?

 

[jeffpg]

Being a bowhunter and muzzleloader most of my life, in addition to appreciating the capabilities of long range clean kills the rifle offers, I prefer to be as close to my quarry as possible. It just enhances the experience and challenge. It played a part in my decision to carry my 454 Casull revolver when I drew the once-in-a-lifetime Idaho Moose hunt in '08. It is a big part of why I continue to hunt elk and deer in the high country of Colorado while adhering to their strict muzzleloader restrictions. I even carry a slingshot for taking small game to compliment the rations on backpacking wilderness hunts. To me, it's all about maximizing the FUN and there is also a lot to be said for the "cool factor" of some self-imposed limitations.

Sometimes though, I just want to equip myself to be the most effective hunter that I can in order to capitalize on an opportunity. A rifle set up to shoot a little farther than average is a tool that can be used in confidence to do this, but you must realize that just like the other weapons and techniques mentioned, you have to PRACTICE in order to become proficient enough to morally take a long shot with CONFIDENCE. These 2 words go hand in hand with the use of any weapon at any range.

I am blessed to live where I have my own private shooting range and my bench sits on the covered deck right out my back door. This allows me to very conviently keep my shooting hand in while I test various weapons/loads. I shoot a LOT.

I have used the holdover reticles since they hit the market, especially the ones from Leupold, and if used properly they are amazingly close to being just as advertised. The key to using them with the confidence neccessary to shoot at game is actually testing them at the various distances you expect them to work at, and then make adjustments if needed. I have taken several animals with a single shot at distances I would never have dreamed of many years ago, and I squeezed the trigger KNOWING what the result was going to be. That's the difference putting the "theory" into practice makes.

Just as in archery though, I increase my effective range through practicing at farther and farther distances until I come up with a limit of effectiveness that I am comfortable with and I will not exceed that. I haven't yet. I have no problem watching one walk away if I am not sure of what I am doing or do not have the time to use my rangefinder. My hunting buddys have witnessed this as they sometimes chose to "chunk lead", which more times than not, led to either simply a clean miss and spooked game, or much worse yet the heartache and wasted hunting time that follows the unsuccessful tracking of a wounded animal. This affects some hunters differently than others. It bothers me to the extent that I don't put myself in that position. So, I continue to practice...

BuzzH - you are spot on concerning at what distance the gravity begins to mean something. If guys will practice with their equipment like they should, the 300 yard shots will become as easy to them as the 100 yard ones are now. The guns and optics are capable...it's the shooter that needs practice.

BigFin - I am really glad for your off-the-shelf success. This speaks well for Leupolds system and your hunters. I hope that you will have the range and chrony time to find out exactly what's happening soon.

Ultrahunter - YES
Read my previous post, there's even a phone number for ya.

SagebrushSlayer
Havin' fun yet? I hope you're gettin' your money's worth! I know I'm learnin'.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

 

[drahthaar]

I agree, this a great thread, keep talking guys.

I am learning a ton.

 

[174in]

The system is a great idea not really any diferent than a adjustable bow sight or target turrets on a bench rest scope.Your best bet if you get this scope is to have a range finder and somewhat of an idea of your loads fps.You also must know the ballistic coeff.I have used adjustable bow sights with a computer system where you just sight the bow in at 20 yards and then print off a data sticker and your good to 100 yards if the system is followed right and you can shoot a bow consistant it works great (Never shot live game past 45 yards just targets).Same deal you had to know your arrow speed and arrow weight.It would be advisable to chrono your loads for the cds system it will only make it work better.Right know you get two dials,If you have not chronoed your gun I would get a turret built for the advertized velocity and one 100 fps slower.That will get you close but I would not rely on it past 400-500 yards until you did it right.An example is a 7mm-08 140 accubond traveling 2700fps would drop about 4 inches more at 500 yards than the same load with a muzzle vel of 2800fps.

 

[MTGunner]

Has anyone found the Leupold VX-3 4.5-14X40 CDS with the 1" tube on sale any where? If not, who has the best price currently? I saw the 30MM model at Cabelas, but prefer the 1" tube. MTG

 

[noharleyyet]

Don't know if this is a good price or not.


VX-3 4.5-14 x 40mm Matte Custom Dial System Duplex (Non AO)
LEU59270
$549.95

http://www.bearbasin.com/leupold-scopes.htm#leupold-scope-pricing

 

[MTGunner]

Leupold CDS...

I just ordered from Bear Basin. They have a free holiday special on shipping of scopes over $199. Also includes a Leupold scopecoat and your choice of base or threaded screw on covers. MTG