Leupold VX-III CDS

[SagebrushSlayer]

I plan on putting this scope on my next rifle. I am interested in finding out anyone else who owns this model. What are your likes/dislikes with it? Did you sight in for 100 or 200 yards? Do you see a neccessity for the windage turret?

Thanks to anyone who could help answer these questions.

 

[jeffpg]

I just put one on my Rem LSS 300RUM and dialed it in dead on at 300 yards. I like to do this with my flatter shooting rifles and go 200 on non-magnums. Your dial will be limited in long range dial in distance, and the 300 yard zero will give me about 850 yards on my set up.
I wouldn't recommend a windage turret as I'd just learn enough to use a judgment hold or else elect not to shoot if unsure. A windmeter and chart can be helpful when you have the time to use them.
There's not really much to dislike in my opinion. I mean, you really know what you are getting before you buy it, and if not, a quick call to a Leupold rep will get you all the info you need. It's a Leupold...nuff said.
Your only real concern, once you have settled in on your approved load/ballistic info, will be the atmospheric issues involved with the calibration of your yardage dial.
The bulk of my hunting is done out West with a large elevation variable existing across the different states I visit. I am currently in the final stages of research/decision making, and unless something changes my mind slightly real soon, I will go with 7000' elevation and 30 degree temperature.
This should give me the best happy-medium across the various elevations that I hunt.

There is much to consider and many opinions in this arena. If there is more I can do, let me know.

Happy Hunting,
Jeff

 

[Big Fin]

I have four of these. They are on a .270 Win, .270WSM, .308, and .300 Win Mag. I have them all zeroed at 100 yards, for the specific loads I asked them to build for.

Probably the slickest thing I have used in many years. Set your zero at 100 yards. For longer ranges,

• take the range
• dial the turret to the specific range
• hold dead on
• squeeze the trigger
• and watch the target get drilled

The first day I zeroed all of these rifles, I shot gongs at 300, 400, 450 yards. After a 100 yard zero, I shot all three gongs and went 5 for 5 with all rifles on the 450 yard gong. I am not the best marksman in the world, so a better shooter could probably do the same out to much longer distances.

All of that was done with different atmospheric settings than I had Leupold build into the dials. For each rifle I have done what Jeffpg did for a "happy-medium" of normal hunting conditions. My deer and antelope rifles were set for 5,000' and 50F. My elk rifles were set for 7,000' and 30F.

I do not have a windage turret, but do pay particular attention to such. Sometimes I just opt to get closer if the crosswind is too much.

People will probably say that I am paid to type this stuff, as they are a sponsor of the show. Yes, they are a sponsor, but I was shooting their scopes for the 30 years before I started a show. They make a great product and are a great company who has been supporting the self-guided hunter and conservation groups long before their foreign competitors even knew the US hunting market existed.

These CDS scopes are a very impressive system. Good news is that someone is going to win another CDS scope when we have the BAYED.

 

[174in]

Thanks SS that is the same scope I was going to ask about.I too plan on ordering one for my new rifle I am having built looks like a good idea.

 

[MNHunter]

I've got one on my long rang rifle. 100 yard zero for me as well. You will love the VXIII with CDS.

 

[mtmiller]

I am torn on the CDS. I was pretty sure I was going to get one, but after this season I think I will stay with the B&C. I had two critters this season that were at 315 and 330; I only had a couple seconds to make the shots. I don't think I would have had the time to make any adjustments before the opportunity was lost. Maybe if I already had the CDS dialed to 300 there wouldn't have been a problem. For most of my hunting I would likely have it dialed into 200 or 250 anyway. I also like the windage reticles on the B&C, but I don't think I would use them past my 330 yard crosshair, well not on a critter anyway.

Downside to B&C is that the lower crosshairs will not remain constant if I adjust the power.

This guy was around 160 if I remember correctly, so a no-brainer, but it does illustrate the reticle on live game.

Anyway, I am a flip-flopper, so I might try a CDS down the road.

 

[Spitz]

I have the B&C reticle on my scope and am happy with it. However, as the wintertime woes set in, and having seen Randy's CDS in action on a sweet shot in KS, I'm thinking of adding a CDS elevation dial to my scope.

Thinking a B&C reticle for quick reference with a CDS elevation dial to be adjusted for shot opportunities with plenty of setup time will be a pretty good combination.

Is it something Leupold can do or do you have to have a duplex reticle?

 

[belly-deep]

Randy,

Have you had any trouble with the dial twisting while you are hiking? A guy over on 24hourcampfire was complaining about that happening.

It would really be a PITA to have a quick shot at 200 yards and try to turn that thing back down from 600 yards or something if it got twisted while you were walking.

 

[Big Fin]

I'm not sure how the dial could move while hiking. I keep mine set on 200 yards. If it is beyond that distance I should have plenty of time to make any necessary adjustments.


Leupold's CDS pages on their site.


This, and the video on the page should help answer any questions of how it works.

 

[BuzzH]

Miller,

You dont have to sight your rifle in dead on at 100...you could zero it at 200-300 depending on your preference, then just have the appropriate adjustments on a chart from there. Thats exactly what I'm going to do with mine, keep my usual 300 yard zero that I've become VERY used to shooting, and then spin turrets from there.

...or you could do what Fin recommended, either way you're covered for about 99% of your shots and only have to worry about adjusting past your zero.

This may explain it better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yBWZQlJ5hY

 

[mtmiller]

Yeh I miss him. He had some great information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRRahHX9Zkg&NR=1

Buzz, I agree. I would probably do the same and keep the turret at 300 and then make adjustments if needed.

At this point I figured "if it ain't broken, don't fix". For example, this year in WY we had some lopes moving out and when the doe stopped for a couple seconds and Pat called out 315, I new my second crosshair was dead-on at 330, so I didn't have to take any time to dial it in. Just put the crosshair there and squeezed. Of course if I already had the CDS set at 300 I would have been in the same boat. This was also the case with a SD deer this year that only gave me a quick stationary target at 340.

If the doe had been, say 420, with only a couple seconds to shoot a stationary critter I would rather have the B&C in that situation. I am sure there are examples that go the other way as well. I am not saying one is better than the other, just that I have no good reason the put this scope in the vault yet.

 

[Spitz]

Guys;

Trying to figure out if I'm missing something. I think this is what Buzz is saying but it seems like Miller is leaning toward one vs. the other. Wouldn't the B&C with the CDS be a perfect combo? Use the B&C on those quick shots but have the CDS to change your main crosshairs for those odd shots or long shots with plenty of aim time?

Maybe I'm off and they'd work better alone than in tandem. Rifle ballistics and scope specifics have never been my strong suit.

 

[Big Fin]

Buzz - I am curious how that will work for you. Not sure what the benefit of that will be.

Maybe it is to not have to move the dial on anything out to 300. Seems that if you zero at some distance other than 100, the calibration will not be correct for other distances. I might be wrong, but I think they calibrate the turrets for a 100 yard zero with your given load and the atmospheric conditions you provide them. If so, as you dial it up to longer distances the elevation increases are logarithmic, not lineal/incremental.

If my logic is correct, you will need to carry some conversion sheet to know what that difference is.

Which in my mind negates the value of a CDS or similar yardage dial system.


Miller - I get your point about quick shots. I am spoiled/burdened by TV, which doesn't allow for quick shots.

I usually have a ball park of what distance the shot will be when I am making my stalk. I have it set in that general range before the shot will occur. In most instances, with any shot over 200 yards, I usually have plenty of time to examine the animal to see if it is one I want to shoot. And that time gives me plenty of opportunity to range and set the dial.

The reason I have it at 200 as my default is that their is very little difference in POI out to 200 yards for any western hunting caliber. Anything beyond that usually provides plenty of time to range and adjust the dial. And, after using it for a season, I can set my dial adjustments in less than a second. It is that easy.


Spitz - I would contact them and see if they can build CDS turrets for the B&C reticle. I think they can, but would not want to promise that. If you had a B&C reticle on a CDS, you probably would have something special.

 

[BuzzH]

Spitz,

I tend to like simple, and frankly, I cant stand a cluttered up scope with multiple wires. I have a scope that I won a few years back on my 22-250 with the multiple crosshairs, alot like Millers. I tried hard to like it, but cant, its a jumbled up mess, IMO.

Miller,

I say if your system is working for you, keep using it. I think alot of this stuff is just setting up a system that you're comfortable/confident in, practice enough to make sure your system is right, then leave it alone and go kill some wildlife.

My system of sighting dead on at 300 would have worked for me as well in both the cases you described...I would have held dead on the 315 shot and game over. May have held the dot on the upper 1/3rd of the body for shot number two at 340. I definately wouldnt have had to spin a turret with a 300 yard zero to make those shots happen.

BigFin,

If you have MOA turrets, you can easily create a chart using any zero...using any load that you know the ballistics on. The problem I see with the premarked turrets is that you dont have a chance to see what really happens...VS...whats SUPPOSED to happen, until you put them on your rifle and hit the range. I'd dare say that a lot of people are ordering premarked turrets without ever sending a bullet through a chrony, but rather getting their m.velocities from a loading manual. That aint gonna work, unless you get real lucky. MOA you can just rerun your chart any time you change a load, bullet weight, bullet styles, etc. one cap does it all.

The advantage will be that I dont have to think about anything inside 300 at all, just carry on as I have been. Creating the dope chart past 300 in MOA seems pretty easy to me.

 

[SagebrushSlayer]

I plan on purchasing the scope before the end of year, through Cabelas. Leupolds website talks about getting two "free" turrets during this sale time. However reading the instructions, I am unsure if I have to place my turret order before Dec 31. If anyone could help me understand, that would be great. Also since I won't be shooting the new rifle before say August, do you think Leupold will have any qualms about me asking for my turrets 9+ months after purchase.

Another point written by BuzzH, indicating the ordering of said turrets off of factory ammo ballistics chart vs shooting through a chronograph. How many of you with the CDS ordered yours based off the chosen ammo's factory ballistic chart? I know some of you might load your own ammo, chronograph it, and send the data. Did anyone shoot the factory ammo to confirm the ballistics?

I plan on shooting Federal's 140gr Accubond. I know that whatever rifle I end up buying in 270 wsm, will shoot better with different ammo, but I am pretty sure accuarcy won't be too bad. I'm hoping to shoot something close to 1" MOA or so.

Now as far as choosing the atmospheric conditions, I will probably need some help. My thought was to order:

1 at 4500'/60* - Antelope/Deer/ Elk in the unusual warm Oct's Idaho has

1 at 6500'/35*- Deer/Elk for the Nov temps.

With how spordic I have hunted Idaho the past 4-5 years, I figured this would be about right. I also plan on hunting other states such as CO, WY, MT. How much does the combo affect your shot? Say I was hunting deer at 4000'/25*.

Thanks again for the replies and education.

BTW Fin, BAYED= _____ _____ Year End Drawing I am pretty good with acronyms, but drew a blank.

 

[jeffpg]

Whoa! You guys have been awfully busy since my last post. I do not claim to be a ballistician, but I do consider myself a "student" of the game and have studied up on this subject quite a bit. I will try to be as helpful as I can. I know that there are plenty of guys out there much better qualified than I am, but I will gladly share what I have learned while keeping it simple.

First of all, I have a real loyalty to that great American company called Leupold that I sense is shared by Big Fin. I don't think I should have to explain it, as the quality and warranty speaks volumes, but I have tried and do use the foreign stuff and in all fairness I must say that it is good, maybe even great. But they ain't Leupold... Try to get 'em to match the customer service and flexibility Leupold offers and see what happens. I'm just sayin'...

I love fast, powerful flat shooting calibers...always have. I guess it's related to my love of horsepower in all forms. BIG John Deere tractors, the fastest motorcycles and baddest dirtbikes, diesel powered 4x4 trucks, whose quarterhorse is quicker... ever witness a good old fashioned mule pull? The list goes on forever, but you get the idea. If not, come on down South and we'll share all this and more with you. It's really a way of life that gets in your blood.

I also like efficiency, which is why I chose the 300RUM as the "fast 30" for me. IMO, it makes the most of it's potential, giving me the best bang for my buck.

I elect to zero at 300 yards with the flat shooters so that I can extend my standard crosshair without having to worry much about being too high up close, and to increase the distance at which my dial will extend at long range, which is approximately 850 yds with the 300RUM. It just gives me more margin for error when faced with a rushed opportunity at relatively short range and the ability to go longer in a more controlled situation when prep time for the shot is not such a factor.

I have spent plenty of time in conversation with the Leupold reps, and to make a long story short and also sweet, the answer to your questions as to "Can and will they do this or that?" is YES!
That is one of the many things I appreciate about Leupold; their willingness to customize your existing scope, or build one to your specifications. Leupold can set your CDS up with any zero you want and will build any reticle they offer into the scope of your choice. They will field your questions and help you more than you may expect. Don't just take my word for it, ring 'em up @ 1-800-LEUPOLD (538-7653).

I own and use many configurations of the VX3, my favorites being the LR 30MM tube series, and I am very fond of both the B&C and Varmint Hunter reticles. I am determined to eventually set a scope up combining these reticles with a custom dial, which "YES", IMO will be the ultimate set up for my personal tastes. This reminds me to mention that we don't all like the same thing...what works best for me may not suit you. To each his own.

I'm trying not to miss anything here...

The offer for the free extra dial is only thru the end of this year, and YES you must get your dial ordered before Jan. 1 to qualify.
Yeah, with 2 dials at your disposal it's a good idea to spread them over your environmental/seasonal situations. Consult a good ballistic chart to learn all you need to know.
By all means, chrony your load before assuming that the published velocities are what you will get from your gun/load. There can be big differences that will have a huge impact at long range.

Hope I helped. That's all the time I have for now.

Good shootin'
Jeff

 

[Moosie]

I'm with Miller. IDBUgler uses the B&C and I love borrowing it. Next year I'll hove it on my gun.

 

[MNHunter]

How many of you with the CDS ordered yours based off the chosen ammo's factory ballistic chart? I know some of you might load your own ammo, chronograph it, and send the data. Did anyone shoot the factory ammo to confirm the ballistics?

The first one I had made was with factory ammo & specs. I then used the chrony and the stated velocity were not close to the readings I got. I'm compiling data for a new turret now with actual readings.

BTW Fin, BAYED= _____ _____ Year End Drawing I am pretty good with acronyms, but drew a blank.

Big A$$ Year End Drawing

 

[Big Fin]

Another point written by BuzzH, indicating the ordering of said turrets off of factory ammo ballistics chart vs shooting through a chronograph. How many of you with the CDS ordered yours based off the chosen ammo's factory ballistic chart? I know some of you might load your own ammo, chronograph it, and send the data. Did anyone shoot the factory ammo to confirm the ballistics?

I had no choice but to have Federal provide those ballistics, without me having a chance to chrono them. I got the call from Leupold in August that they wanted me to swap out all my scopes for the show to the CDS. Federal wanted me to try different ammo from what I had used the previous year.

Wow, pretty wholesale changes to the shooting setup, and very late in the game. I would be on the road archery hunting almost every day, and would then have about two days to get things dialed in before we headed to AZ for an early rifle elk hunt and would be using one of the new CDS scopes.

I called Federal and asked what the ballistics would be in those loads, given the rifles I would be shooting with. They provided that for me to give to Leupold, and it was almost identical to what was on their website for each load.

That is what the turrets were built for. So far, the combination is completely impressive and so far beyond my shooting talents, that any tweaks for small differences in actual ballistics and those used for the turrets, would be of very little value.

I would say that if you were handloading, this system would be about as slick as you could get, especially once you had your favorite load dialed in to the level of consistency that handloaders can achieve.

This year, the CDS system in a .308 killed elk at 280 yards and 295 yards. The .300 Win setup killed an elk at 440 yards. The .270 Win killed deer at 100 yards (that is pretty easy) and 320 yards. Every shot was taken with a dead on hold with the CDS dialed to the ranged distance. The bullet and CDS combination performed exactly as scripted.

Some of these were guest hunters who are not familiar with my rifles and setups. They performed flawlessly and accurate beyond my expectations for hunters who had not spent any time with the rifle and the scope they were now asked to use.

 

[BuzzH]

I dont think you'll see many problems with being "close enough" with the ballistics info you give leupold for the turret caps for shots inside 400-450. All you have to do is look at the ballistics of any rifle from centerfire .22's through 375 H&H to grasp it...not much variance inside 400. An inch or three of drop either way wont cause a miss or any hardship.

Where things get tough is when you push beyond 400, slight differences become not so slight and in a hurry. Thats where you'll start seeing gaps in your load data in regard to turrets, multi-reticle scopes, etc. if you dont have the MV's, BC's, etc. right. Its also where I've found problems with fixed reticles and drop charts...what "should" and what "does" become different at extended range, IME.