Leupold cds and elevation

[tzone]

I’m still a little concerned that your actual experience in the field has you dialing 5 clicks more than the calculator says you should. You need to figure out what’s going on here.

As mentioned by 4ohSick, there’s no need to dial for distances out to 300yds. You should almost be able to just look and know that it’s close enough to simply point and shoot. It pains me to see someone range an animal well under 300yds, then dial and hope that during the process the animal doesn’t get away. Just the other day I saw a guy range an animal that was looking right at him and at risk of escaping. Range turned out to be 240yds. Then he dialed. I thought “are you serious? I’d only HAVE to dial 3 clicks, and without dialing I’d only be 2” low. Just SHOOOOOT”. Certainly there are some low velocity cartridges out there that would be exceptions, but for most centerfire rifle cartridges there is no reason to zero closer than 200yds, and very little reason to be dialing closer than 300yds. Somehow I can still find ways to screw up, but ranging and dialing inside 300yds would just give me even more ways to screw up.

You still need to figure out why you were dialing 18 clicks to be on target at 300yds. Was your 100yd zero wrong? Was the range wrong?(closer to 350yds than 300yds) Is your scope mounted at a different height than the calculator was set up for? Something is amiss.

If you sight in a 30-06/165's in at 100 yds, it's 18 clicks to 300. My .280 Rem with 150's is 17 clicks to 300 with the standard CDS system (not actual custom) and a 100 yd zero.

With a 200 yd zero, you'd only be 6-7" low at 300 with a 30-0/165's

 

[ImBillT]

If you sight in a 30-06/165's in at 100 yds, it's 18 clicks to 300. My .280 Rem with 150's is 17 clicks to 300 with the standard CDS system (not actual custom) and a 100 yd zero.

With a 200 yd zero, you'd only be 6-7" low at 300 with a 30-0/165's

If it’s 18 clicks to 300yds with a 100yd zero, then the OP is going to have trouble with the dial Leupold sent him, because it’s only 13 clicks from 100 to 300 on his dial. That isn’t enough to cause a miss on a mule deer, but 1.25MOA low is certainly enough completely negate the advantage of dialing.

What conditions are giving you 18 clicks to 300yds? I plugged some stuff into a calculator and got 13-14 clicks at muzzle velocities I would assume to be reasonable. A different sight height would change it. The muzzle velocity required to get to 18 clicks from a 100yd zero seemed painfully slow even for a short barreled 308Win.

Yes only 6-7” low at 300yds if sighted in at 200yds. That’s why zeroing at 200yds and not dialing until at least 300yds is a pretty simple and reliable way to do things.

 

[buffybr]

I have Leupold CDS scopes on five of my rifles. The only one that I had a custom dial made for is my .300 Weatherby, and it has a zero stop at 200 yards. Our range has target backstops at 100, 200, 300, and 430 yards. For all of my other CDS scopes I zeroed those rifles at 100 yds, then range verified the impact settings for 2, 3, and 430 yds, and then painted a dot for the 100 yd zero and thin white lines on the top of the turrets for those ranges.

I have Weatherby Vanguards in .223 and .308 Win that I take to the range every week and starting at 200 yds, I shoot 3 or 4 shots with each rifle at each of the ranges. Just dial and shoot.

When hunting I leave the turret set at 200 yds. which is good to at least 250 yds. If the animal isn't spooked and time permits I can lazer range him and set the turret closer to that range. In over 50 years of very successful hunting, I've only shot at one animal that was over 350 yds, and that was my first elk back before I knew how to hunt.

 

[tzone]

If it’s 18 clicks to 300yds with a 100yd zero, then the OP is going to have trouble with the dial Leupold sent him, because it’s only 13 clicks from 100 to 300 on his dial. That isn’t enough to cause a miss on a mule deer, but 1.25MOA low is certainly enough completely negate the advantage of dialing.

What conditions are giving you 18 clicks to 300yds? I plugged some stuff into a calculator and got 13-14 clicks at muzzle velocities I would assume to be reasonable. A different sight height would change it. The muzzle velocity required to get to 18 clicks from a 100yd zero seemed painfully slow even for a short barreled 308Win.

Yes only 6-7” low at 300yds if sighted in at 200yds. That’s why zeroing at 200yds and not dialing until at least 300yds is a pretty simple and reliable way to do things.

Conditions?

I took my rifle to the range and shot it. Then wrote down my come ups. I’m not going off of a dial, an app, or internet advice.

 

[ImBillT]

Conditions?

I took my rifle to the range and shot it. Then wrote down my come ups. I’m not going off of a dial, an app, or internet advice.

Well that’s a lot of clicks.

Do you know your sight hight? What’s your muzzle velocity? What bullet is it?

 

[tzone]

It’s a factory Federal 150gr Power Shok with an advertised MV of 2890fps.

I haven’t measured my scope height.

Shooting it out of a Winchester M70 fwt with a 22” barrel.

Looking on the box, sighted in at 100 yds it would be 13” low at 300.

I typically so go t in my rifles at 200. This was the first one I ever bought with CDS so it’s sighted at 100. I have bought several CDS scopes since because I like them.

Scope is 3.5-10 Leupold VX3HD CDS, 1/4 MOA clicks.
Mounted in Leupold rings and mounts.

 

[ImBillT]

It’s a factory Federal 150gr Power Shok with an advertised MV of 2890fps.

I haven’t measured my scope height.

Shooting it out of a Winchester M70 fwt with a 22” barrel.

Looking on the box, sighted in at 100 yds it would be 13” low at 300.

I typically so go t in my rifles at 200. This was the first one I ever bought with CDS so it’s sighted at 100. I have bought several CDS scopes since because I like them.

Scope is 3.5-10 Leupold VX3HD CDS, 1/4 MOA clicks.
Mounted in Leupold rings and mounts.

Looks like that’s probably for your 280Rem, not a 30-06.

Assuming the box velocity was for a 26” barrel, you can reasonably assume 2750-2780fps in a 22”. Plugging 2750fps and a Berger 150 Classic hunter into Berger’s calculator give you 18 clicks to 300yds with a 1.5” sight height at sea level. You’re probably shooting a little faster, and above sea level, hence 17 instead of 18.

Plugging in a .30cal 168 classic hunter at 3050fps(which I believe is the advertised MV for his factory load) and the 8000’ he asked for gives me 13 clicks. We don’t know his sight height, or his actual MV. It’s hard to say if his dial is what he needs or not. 3050fps seems high for a 30-06 with a 168, but not impossible. Going from 2000’ to 8000’ is likely only going to result in about 1 click difference at 300yds, so the other 4 clicks are not accounted for. Ideally it was shooter error and his dial is correct, and he has been able to verify the dial’s accuracy before hunting. It does take 2700-2750fps to require 18 clicks to get to 300yds with that bullet, and while 3050fps is high, 2750fps is way lower than expected.

 

[tzone]

He said he was using a Hornady 30-06 hornady 165gr SST. Figuring it’s a factory load it’s MV is 2960. Only 70fps different than what I’m using. Bergers are probably faster. But he’s not using Bergers.

He’s got a BC of .447 and mine is .416, also not much difference.

His data and mine jive. Not plugged into a program. Shot in the field on paper.

J

 

[tzone]

If I can remember tomorrow afternoon, I’ll measure the height off the barrel.

 

[ImBillT]

He said he was using a Hornady 30-06 hornady 165gr SST. Figuring it’s a factory load it’s MV is 2960. Only 70fps different than what I’m using. Bergers are probably faster. But he’s not using Bergers.

He’s got a BC of .447 and mine is .416, also not much difference.

His data and mine jive. Not plugged into a program. Shot in the field on paper.

J

Somehwere I found a factory load for a 165 at 3050fps, or at least it’s stuck in my head that I did. I did think that was on the high side, but it was one of the first things I came across. That was a few days ago. I just used the 168 Classic Hunter because I didn’t have to look up a BC or plug it in. I just used the drop down list. Oddly, it matches his dial, so I do feel like I found that number somewhere. Also, the Classic Hunter is not a really high BC bullet. It has a traditional profile, and it should be fairly close to a lot of other 165-168gr bullets.

Now, who cares what data he’s plugging in. His dial is 13 clicks from 100 to 300. That’s either right or wrong. He needs to test it in the field, and make any adjustments necessary. And when he gets back, he needs to figure why there’s a discrepancy, and possibly try to get Leupold to send him a correct dial on their dime, depending on where the error is.

 

[tzone]

Now, who cares what data he’s plugging in. His dial is 13 clicks from 100 to 300. That’s either right or wrong. He needs to test it in the field, and make any adjustments necessary. And when he gets back, he needs to figure why there’s a discrepancy, and possibly try to get Leupold to send him a correct dial on their dime, depending on where the error is.

Actually I was thinking that dial might be off as well.

But I agree. For anything 300-350 dials aren't needed. Just practice!

 

[ImBillT]

Actually I was thinking that dial might be off as well.

But I agree. For anything 300-350 dials aren't needed. Just practice!

I’ve shot past 300 without dialing, but hearing about dialing to 300 or 350 and beyond doesn’t concern me. It’s the easiest way to do it, so as long as you’ve verified that dialing to your marks results in hits at those ranges, by all means have at it. Watching a guy range and dial at 240yds concerned me. You don’t even need practice to shoot at 240yds without dialing. Just hold dead on. It honestly doesn’t take much experience to not need the rangefinder at 240yds either. You just go “hmm looks under 300yds. I think I’ll hold on the spine and assume the bullet is going to drop at least a little”. Also, most scopes are going to have a few clicks worth of error when dialing back and forth. When you’re talking about what should only be a few clicks in the first place(200yd zero and 240yd shot) the only thing you’re doing by dialing is risking that you do something wrong or the animal leaves.

Hopefully the OP verified his dial, and made any corrections necessary, and is having a wonderful hunt!

 

[elevatorman]

Lots of good info on here! What I do is I use the standard cds turret marked in moa on my scope. I chrono my gun, go to hornadys awesome online ballistics calculator and get the moa drop for every 50 yards. Then sight in at 100 yards. Then I take a fine tip silver sharpie and on the top mark a line and a 2 Then a line and 2.5 then a line and 3 and so on. So it's not as pretty, but its free and can be changed to any gun/load/elevation by simply cleaning off the top and redoing it. It's the same as a custom dial just the marks are on top instead of on the side.

I had made up a load and sent in for my free dial. Now I realized I wanted to switch bullets and even if I used the original bullet i can get more velocity with different powders. I probably won't ever use that one again.

 

[TheJason]

You just go “hmm looks under 300yds. I think I’ll hold on the spine and assume the bullet is going to drop at least a little”.

if this is a widespread practice, it would explain the continuous complaints of no blood trail.

 

[Cornbread]

Thanks for the advice but I think the only thing amiss was just me. It was the first time I’ve ever shot 300. I was shooting off sticks and not sandbags. The whole where to zero just comes down to personal preference. I want to be zeroed at 100 because here in VA that’s about the max for the woods I hunt. I bought this scope because I like the idea of dialing vs possibly shooting 2 inches low off the bat and maybe pulling my shot and being way low. Just comes down to personal preference. I definitely plan on shooting when I get to CO Friday just to make sure but I feel good about it.

Go to a local range when you get there. I went from Florida at sea level to Montana at 5-6000' It made a little difference, not much like maybe an inch or 2. I did have shots possible to 400-500 yards out there for mule deer. We were hunting pretty late in the season and the deer had been obviously heavily pressured. I sighted my rifle in for 100 yards, but I put a ballistic table for every 50 yards on the side of my rifle near the butt. When I was out I dialed up 2 MOA, i.e. 2" high at 100 yards that covers everything out to 300 yards. If I was in a 100 yard spot sitting I could easily just crank it down. Just my style. Then if I was in a long shot possibility, I memorized the clicks up to hit 400, and 500 yards. 2 numbers to memorize. Also helpful for windage in a 20-30mph winds. Sometimes there is not time to screw around ranging etc fartin' around. JUST SHOOT was good advice by one poster. To the original poster, have you done much long range shooting? Try getting a 7mm Rem Mag.

 

[Cornbread]

Lots of good info on here! What I do is I use the standard cds turret marked in moa on my scope. I chrono my gun, go to hornadys awesome online ballistics calculator and get the moa drop for every 50 yards. Then sight in at 100 yards. Then I take a fine tip silver sharpie and on the top mark a line and a 2 Then a line and 2.5 then a line and 3 and so on. So it's not as pretty, but its free and can be changed to any gun/load/elevation by simply cleaning off the top and redoing it. It's the same as a custom dial just the marks are on top instead of on the side.

I had made up a load and sent in for my free dial. Now I realized I wanted to switch bullets and even if I used the original bullet i can get more velocity with different powders. I probably won't ever use that one again.

Unless I had an expensive chronograph like Lab Radar, those chrono numbers could be highly suspect. All those cheap chromosomes are most likely made in a friggin chinese factory

 

[Cornbread]

They are made in the same chinese factories that make our spellcheckers.