Lapua Scenar on game

[ImBillT]

I remember watching Best of the West. Got me thinking I needed to shoot animals way out there. Had the rifle. Bought my first VLD's for it in 2003 or thereabouts. Awesome accuracy. Hated on game performance. (This in my RUM not the .243) I believe John Burns, even if he didn't talk to Berger he created the Berber fandom. mtmuley

Didn’t like “on game performance” or lost animals? They definitely don’t hold together the way that we’ve been told hunting bullets should hold together for the last 75+ years. I can see how their fragmentation could disturb someone, and don’t blame you or anyone else for choosing something different. Neither myself, nor 99% of hunters can kill the number of animals required to do serious testing, so we’re all operating on pretty limited personal experience plus the experience of others. If you don’t like what you see when you kill an animal with a Berger that’s your business. I’d like to know if we both see the same thing, and I like it, but you don’t, or if we’re getting different results. Exits are good. Dropping animals where they stand is also good. Sometimes you can get both. I like Bergers, other people don’t. I was going to go down the mono rabbit hole when I started shooting Bergers on animals and haven’t had a reason to switch. I think monos have some substantial upside compared to a lot of bullets, but I accidentally landed on something I don’t want to switch from.

If I was gonna try a mono I think a Hammer is the first thing I would try. I’ve never shot one. I’m not interested in trying to improve upon my current results. Pre-Berger, I was looking to improve upon my results, and when I shot my first Berger on an animal, it wasn’t even an attempt at getting better results. I 100% thought a mono was my answer, and a good mono just might have given me what I was after. I just accidentally got the results I was after before I really gave monos a chance. Now I have no reason to try monos. At least not yet.

 

[BuzzH]

Have 2 friends from ND that I've seen shoot 12 elk with bergers, both shooting 7 RM's. One is looking to move away from them, the other is going to stick with them.

From what I've seen, I wouldn't shoot them at elk unless they were the only bullet my rifle would shoot. I would also expect to have significant blood shot meat.

 

[brockel]

Planning to try the 139 grain scenar in my 6.5 max this spring unless hammer comes out with a tipped hammer then I might give those a try too

 

[old roper 42]

I think it’s 100% true.

Looks like Walt was still the owner at the time, but it wasn’t his friend that told him about hunting with VLDs.

I'm not sure on dates company was sold, but Walt did work for new owners.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I believe Scenars are designed to be a target bullet. All I'm going to say is there are a lot hunting bullet designs I wouldn't shoot at a game animal.

 

[cahunter805]

I believe Scenars are designed to be a target bullet. All I'm going to say is there are a lot hunting bullet designs I wouldn't shoot at a game animal.

+1

Also There are plenty of target bullets I would have no problem shooting at a game animal either.

 

[Mackay Sagebrush]

I have shot around a dozen or so elk using 155 Scenars using a .308. Only once have I recovered a bullet and that was on a cow at 615 yards, which is the longest shot I have taken using the projectile. It was in the offside hide.

Literally zero drama. If you can shoot well, they shoot little tiny groups, and kill elk easily. I have not noted any damage to the meat that I would consider to be unusual.

My daughter (when she was a teenager) took her first cow elk at 375 yards with a single shot placed behind the shoulder, exactly where I told her to, using her 20" Tikka T3 308. The bullet exited the offside shoulder and then the work began.

I see no reason to use any other projectile for my .308s.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

@Carl has shot some game with them in the past. In fact he’s probably who told me years ago that Pat used them and to reach out.

 

[Don Fischer]

Hoping some of you on here could share your experiences using Lapua Scenar bullets on game. How was the meat damage? I’ve read on 24hrcampfire that most bullets seem to exit. Are the exits giagantic holes? I know these aren’t hunting bullets, but have a rifle that shoots them better by far than anything else. Just can’t decide if they are hunting worthy.

On one hand you say you know they are not hunting bullet's and on the other you want them for hunting? Something about bullet's today. I believe most bullet's made for hunting all work for hunting! Lighter bullet's at higher velocities will make a bigger mess and match bullet's probably even bigger mess. Good part about the bullet is it doesn't matter what its made for dependong on how you place the bullet!

Had to go look them u[p. Manufacturer says they are not hunting bullet's!

 

[Elktrack]

Good part about the bullet is it doesn't matter what it’s made for dependong on how you place the bullet!

Nope.

 

[golfer]

On one hand you say you know they are not hunting bullet's and on the other you want them for hunting?

Yet on many different forums you read of guys using ELD-M with great success, which are also not hunting bullets. This could be said for many of the Berger line too, but dang guys seem to have decent results with those non-hunting Berger bullets.

 

[Carl]

@Carl has shot some game with them in the past. In fact he’s probably who told me years ago that Pat used them and to reach out.

Just checked, I shot 8 big game animals with 139's out of a 6.5x47L. Probably my rifle was used for about that many more for friends and family but I didn't keep records of that. My personal ones included a black bear, bull elk, mountain goat, antelope, and some mule deer. Engagements were between 87 yds and 537 yds, at a fairly sedate launch velocity.

Pat's experience along with another guy from the 'hide got me to try them. The other guy I'm referencing took like 40 or 60 elk with them, it was literally his job and he tested out a lot of stuff. I didn't personally see anything that'd keep me from using them again.

Since then I've been mostly using Hornady ELD-M's. First the 147 in 6.5x47 & 6.5 PRC, then the 108 & 109 in 6 Dasher, and most recently the 88 in a 22BR. In my opinion the Scenar penetrates somewhat deeper but the ELD's have a wider wound channel, somewhat of a compromise terminally. The ELD's external ballistics are superior, and they are generally cheaper and more available. The 22 cal and 6mm kills have been as quick and decisive as anything I've used.

ETA: I do not care what a bullet is marketed for, if only obviously given my selections above. I do care what works.

 

[ImBillT]

Yet on many different forums you read of guys using ELD-M with great success, which are also not hunting bullets. This could be said for many of the Berger line too, but dang guys seem to have decent results with those non-hunting Berger bullets.

Most Berger bullets being shot on game are backed up by Berger as being “hunting bullets”. Berger has tested their hunting bullets and has gotten the results they want from those tests. Furthermore Berger tested their “Match” bullets and did not get the results they were seeking in their hunting bullets. Absolutely bullets that aren’t hunting bullets can work, and that’s absolutely how Berger’s hunting bullets came into being, BUT Berger’s hunting bullets are tested and backed by Berger, AND their non-hunting bullets WERE TESTED, and DID NOT PERFORM THEY WAY THE WANTED. Hornady ELD-M’s were either not tested for hunting by Hornady, or they didn’t perform the way Hornady wanted in a hunting bullet. They could still perform the way someone else wants. I’m not saying they don’t .

 

[BAKPAKR]

Most Berger bullets being shot on game are backed up by Berger as being “hunting bullets”. Berger has tested their hunting bullets and has gotten the results they want from those tests. Furthermore Berger tested their “Match” bullets and did not get the results they were seeking in their hunting bullets. Absolutely bullets that aren’t hunting bullets can work, and that’s absolutely how Berger’s hunting bullets came into being, BUT Berger’s hunting bullets are tested and backed by Berger, AND their non-hunting bullets WERE TESTED, and DID NOT PERFORM THEY WAY THE WANTED. Hornady ELD-M’s were either not tested for hunting by Hornady, or they didn’t perform the way Hornady wanted in a hunting bullet. They could still perform the way someone else wants. I’m not saying they don’t .

Hornady ought to test ELD-Ms for hunting. My daughter and I have had pretty good luck with them. I have heard Scenars work even better.

BTW - I have heard that you never want to try using a Berger 215 Hybrd Target on elk.

 

[ImBillT]

Hornady ought to test ELD-Ms for hunting. My daughter and I have had pretty good luck with them. I have heard Scenars work even better.

BTW - I have heard that you never want to try using a Berger 215 Hybrd Target on elk.

I’m all for it Hornady testing them.

Yes I know the 215 Hybrid has been used on a lot of elk. I’m not saying they won’t work. I was responding someone who seemed to be suggesting that if a Berger can be used on game, then any target bullet can be used on game. That’s sort of apples and oranges. Berger did their due diligence before ever suggesting that someone should use them on game AND they tested more bullets than they approved of. You’re criteria and their criteria may be different, and that’s you’re business. In an earlier post I made in this thread I said that if I was going to use a bullet that wasn’t recommended by the manufacturer for game, that I would look for peoples experience with that specific bullet. I didn’t mean Scenars in general. I meant that if you’re going to shoot a 30cal 155gr Scenar, then I would look for results from 30cal 155gr Scenars.

If a lot of people are using them on game and are pleased with the results, I can’t tell you they won’t work.

 

[Mackay Sagebrush]

The pics below are a follow up.

This is the first cow my oldest daughter killed when she was 15.

Range was 375 yards. The gun used was a Tikka T3 .308 chopped to 20"s with a muzzle brake, and shooting the same load I do, which is a 155 Scenar.

I told her to shoot the cow behind the shoulder, in an imaginary line with the center of the offside shoulder, and that is exactly what she did.

In one pic she is showing the entrance.

The last pic shows the quarter/50 cent piece sized, dark red circle (dead center of the opposite side shoulder) that was the projectiles exit path after I removed the front off side quarter.

I really don't know how one could expect any better performance than that from a .308. It simply works and has worked each and every time.

 

[cowboy]

In all the discussion of target versus hunting bullets - no one is considering the “marketing“ by manufacturers of said bullets. If I made a bullet that was accurate (shot lights out) I would market and promote it as a target bullet, regardless of it’s capability on game animals. Bench rest shooters, PRS, F class etc. shoot 100’s if not thousands of times more bullets than hunters and said companies sales are 100’s or thousands of times more volume.

Without a doubt, bullet manufacturers make and market both so as to cover all useages of shooters and promote their bullets as such.

Walt Berger was a world class bench rest shooter. He made and promoted his bullets as such. It wasn’t until people like John Burns, who wanted an accurate long range hunting bullet tested and proved that the Berger in fact was very capable at taking game effectively did the Berger Bullets become popular in the hunting world. Pat Sinclair did similar with the Scenar bullets.

Shoot what tickles your fancy but take the label on a box of bullets as to what market the manufacturer is trying to get to.

I say all this and realize there are some bullets that are definitely not intended for big game. So before you go on the band wagon of giving various examples - take a deep breath.

I’ve got a couple hundred kills under my belt (and probably one of the oldest members on this forum). Boned and completely processed every one of them kills, plus twice that many my sons have shot and can honestly say that some “target” bullets are more efficient and accurate than some marketed “hunting bullets”. Plus I’ve got a basket full of recovered bullets that can’t lie.

I’ll take experience and proven results every time over advertisements.

 

[cowboy]

Berger has tested their hunting bullets and has gotten the results they want from those tests.

Chit happens. This is a Berger VLD hunting bullet that I retrieved out of a bull elk a number of years ago. It‘s a 168 gr launched out of a custom 280AI. After a number of phone conversations with 3 different individuals at Berger I have a theory on what happened and probable cause - but that’s a whole different story and I have since changed as well as corrected those possibilities. I also have a suspicion that Berger has changed something since that time versus todays bullets. I still shoot Bergers in a number of rifles.
If you shoot any bullet long enough, kill a number of representive animals, and retrieve and analyze the results you’ll one day get results that’ll make you shake your head and ask what the ____.

 

[Don Fischer]

Chit happens. This is a Berger VLD hunting bullet that I retrieved out of a bull elk a number of years ago. It‘s a 168 gr launched out of a custom 280AI. After a number of phone conversations with 3 different individuals at Berger I have a theory on what happened and probable cause - but that’s a whole different story and I have since changed as well as corrected those possibilities. I also have a suspicion that Berger has changed something since that time versus todays bullets. I still shoot Bergers in a number of rifles.
If you shoot any bullet long enough, kill a number of representive animals, and retrieve and analyze the results you’ll one day get results that’ll make you shake your head and ask what the ____.

That looks like a hollow point bullet!

 

[cowboy]

That looks like a hollow point bullet!

To my knowledge - all Berger VLD hunting bullets have a hollow cavity at the tip.