Landowner Tags...your thoughts?
- Thread starter Craig S.
- Start date
npaden
Well-known member
Probably not a popular opinion with all the tag grab threads going around, but I don't have a problem with landowner tags that can only be used on that landowners property. I think there should be some kind of quota per acre of identified habitat or something like that unless the animals that are being hunted are resident animals with very small home ranges. There are a lot of examples of landowner tags being mismanaged but a few where they seem to work okay.
The small contributing landowner tags in New Mexico where some guy with 5 acres of land gets a bull tag that can be used unit wide on public land is one example where they are out of hand. Within the same state the New Mexico antelope landowner tags seem to be a reasonable compromise. They allocate the tags between the landowner and the public tag holders based on the % of public vs private land on each ranch. Nearly all antelope tags can only be used on that ranch. Often it gains the public hunter access to the better quality private land on the ranch that they otherwise might not get access to.
That's my thoughts anyway.
The small contributing landowner tags in New Mexico where some guy with 5 acres of land gets a bull tag that can be used unit wide on public land is one example where they are out of hand. Within the same state the New Mexico antelope landowner tags seem to be a reasonable compromise. They allocate the tags between the landowner and the public tag holders based on the % of public vs private land on each ranch. Nearly all antelope tags can only be used on that ranch. Often it gains the public hunter access to the better quality private land on the ranch that they otherwise might not get access to.
That's my thoughts anyway.
Dinkshooter
Well-known member
Don't get me started about a broken Colorado system that allows poaching, bankrupt (both monetarily and morally) D-bags the chance to skip the draw, buy a tag and kill nice bucks on public land. Obviously I think it is a swell system.
In Colorado I think they need to be for "Private Land" only. Being able to hunt public land with them and compete with folks that drew their tag is straight up wrong IMO.
I will admit I have used them in the past and will in the future. As long as the program is around I would be a fool not too. I have a couple farmers on the Eastern Plains that are signed up in the program and they give them to me for free. I just have to pay the application fee of $3.00 each.
If they completely did away with the program I'd be fine with it, but it looks like our future commission is gonna be set up where vouchers might even become easier for me
I will admit I have used them in the past and will in the future. As long as the program is around I would be a fool not too. I have a couple farmers on the Eastern Plains that are signed up in the program and they give them to me for free. I just have to pay the application fee of $3.00 each.
If they completely did away with the program I'd be fine with it, but it looks like our future commission is gonna be set up where vouchers might even become easier for me
anIDhunter
New member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2011
- Messages
- 43
THey started this in ID in 1986 for landowners in controlled hunt units and called them Landowner Preference Permits (LPP). The original criteria to obtain a permit were: at least 640 acres in the unit, be considered a good steward of the controlled species, allow reasonable access to the general hunting public, the permit was non-transferable and to be used by the landowner or a member of his family.
Unfortunately over time it evolved into the Landowner Appreciation Permit system(LAP) that we have today. The access clause for the general sportsmen is gone. Also the stipulation that the permit be used by the landowner or his family, so now a game is played where access is charged for and a tag is given in exchange for money. This year several bills were sent to the legislator pertaining to the sale of these tags and a number of Governor's tags.
For the general sportsmen the LPP/LAP programs have been a negative thing leading to less private land available to hunt in Idaho. Every time LAP negotiations happen the concerns of diminished access by the general sportsmen appear to be ignored while more concession are given to the recipients of the LAP tags. The LAP tag has become a cash cow for landowners lucky enough to draw these limited tags. This in turn leads to diminished opportunity for the guy who can't afford to pay the high price for the LAP tag. The whole LAP program needs to revisited in its management of our public resource--the wild game animals in Idaho. As it stands the system is broken and fraught with greed.
Pat
Unfortunately over time it evolved into the Landowner Appreciation Permit system(LAP) that we have today. The access clause for the general sportsmen is gone. Also the stipulation that the permit be used by the landowner or his family, so now a game is played where access is charged for and a tag is given in exchange for money. This year several bills were sent to the legislator pertaining to the sale of these tags and a number of Governor's tags.
For the general sportsmen the LPP/LAP programs have been a negative thing leading to less private land available to hunt in Idaho. Every time LAP negotiations happen the concerns of diminished access by the general sportsmen appear to be ignored while more concession are given to the recipients of the LAP tags. The LAP tag has become a cash cow for landowners lucky enough to draw these limited tags. This in turn leads to diminished opportunity for the guy who can't afford to pay the high price for the LAP tag. The whole LAP program needs to revisited in its management of our public resource--the wild game animals in Idaho. As it stands the system is broken and fraught with greed.
Pat
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
"fraught with greed" Therein lies the problem with such private property tags. The system eventually morphs into lucrative financial deals having little or nothing to do with good wildlife management, sustaining valued hunting traditions, access for average hunters, or emphasis on ethical hunting.
mtlion
Well-known member
They're giving out tags to shoot landowners now? Wow. What are the draw odds?
We have 3 types of landowner tags in SD. 1 is the special draw which comes up in April where non landowners can draw a tag (rifle during the rut) to hunt private land only in any county East River or West River (for residents, you can draw one of each). Or any county West River (for non-residents), this is a very powerful tag, because it lets you scout a huge area and hunt were you find an above average buck living, rather than hoping to find one in an area you traditionally hunt year after year.
2. Landowners get preference in the standard draw, I disagree with this because of the 3rd type of tag, and especially because this tag is good on public land also.
3. If a landowner doesn't draw a game warden will literally drive to their house and write them a tag for their land.
If we abolished all three of these tags it wouldn't hurt my feelings any.
Problem with NM is that the G&F told me they only used 20% of the cow elk tags so it is all about $millions a year and nothing to do with crop or fence damage. I like it here in AZ where we have none but that also attracts the likes of Don Peay and George Taulman.
Hem
Well-known member
I have grumbled before about a neighbor who has a room full of trophy bulls taken from 380.He gets a landowner tag virtually every other year based upon his 640 acres that elk occasionally get on to.Nice guy who loves to hunt elk and hunts hard for sure(somehow he hunts every day of archery and rifle),but with odds of .5% for the rest of us it doesn't really seem fair.IMO this specific unit should only have landowner preference cow tags,or a bull tag much less frequently.
In some state's it doesn't matter, IMO. Where I live in IN now I can shoot all the deer legally allowed by the bag limits without buying a tag (total bag limit of 11 for that county). That only pertains to land I own, I have to buy tags for all other lands regardless of public or private. But, then again there is no limit on the number of tags a guy can get either.
States with limited tags, I do think it matters and I'm not a fan of them being legit for off the owners property in any situation.
States with limited tags, I do think it matters and I'm not a fan of them being legit for off the owners property in any situation.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
This is legislation we are working on. We think that at a min. there needs to be a waiting period for those coveted tags. Also they should hunt on their own lands.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Idahos landowner system is working out great. I mean why shouldn't rich people be able to hunt the best units every year.
Could you expound a bit? That comment doesn't fit my, albeit limited, understanding of Idaho's landowner tag system.
As it is now the Idaho landowner tags are transferable to anyone, however they can't be sold. The way people are getting around this is by charging a "tresspass" fee and throwing in the tag. Idaho's system has been broken for a while and this legislative session has tried to only make it worse.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
I think it is said pretty well here
I have the phone number of a guy Who offered me a l a p tag for in my opinion the best muley unit in idaho for 12000 now I thought long and hard about it but I do not want to be part of this corrupt shit. In my opinion every time Someone pays 10,000 dollars for a tag in a great unit and kills a big animal he has basically stolen that animal from somebody who has been putting in for 10-20 years. If I bought a tag like that and killed a giant deer or elk every time I looked up on the wall at that head I would see 10,000 dollars sitting there and feel guilty about my selfishness.
And yes I call it the lap program Because it's politicians sitting in the lap of land owners.
In short my view of the lap system in idaho is it was designed with a giant loop hole that allows landowners to charge very large sums of money for a trespass fee and in exchange you get a tag for one of the best units in the state. Not only does this make sure there are tags in hands of the rich. But in the process it also locks a lot of hunters who draw a tag through the system off of private land. For this reason alone our l a p program is twice as bad as most others. I have dr a tag and had a landowner who I've known all my life tell me "I'm sorry I can't let you on my property this year" for the sole reason that in order to sell his landowner tags he had to charge trespassing fees of $10,000 per person and give the tag to the hunter to make it nice and legal. THAT IS NOT GOOD BUT I CAN'T BLAME HIM FOR TAKING THE MONEY.
I have the phone number of a guy Who offered me a l a p tag for in my opinion the best muley unit in idaho for 12000 now I thought long and hard about it but I do not want to be part of this corrupt shit. In my opinion every time Someone pays 10,000 dollars for a tag in a great unit and kills a big animal he has basically stolen that animal from somebody who has been putting in for 10-20 years. If I bought a tag like that and killed a giant deer or elk every time I looked up on the wall at that head I would see 10,000 dollars sitting there and feel guilty about my selfishness.
And yes I call it the lap program Because it's politicians sitting in the lap of land owners.
Flynarrow
Well-known member
I have done considerable investigation of such "Ranching for Wildlife" programs in NM, UT and CO. The programs are ripe for abuse....stories of landowners harassing wildlife on public to drive them onto their private land, hunting only the perimeter and providing a sanctuary "no hunt" on the interior of their land, planting "food plots" to keep public wildlife on their land, going back to the legislature for higher percentage of tags as LAP, directing "public" hunters onto less desirable parts of their land, This is a slippery slope to get onto and I caution anyone caring for public wildlife to avoid going this route.
