Landowner claims BLM is his private property

[NYyotekiller]

Any updates on how this all ended up?

 

[Brachii]

Fight it brother! Same thing happened to me in WY when a land owner came w/ 3 buddies to intimidate my wife and I saying I needed his permission to hunt state land that his cows were sometimes on. I immediately called the game warden and put him in his place. Don't take his BS! If not for you, do it for future hunters that will be on that land. A guy like that probably pulls that crap all the time.

 

[Devil Diver Down]

Hope you pursued this. The area you hunt next season may have had a Dale Head private owner next door that someone else had to sic the authorities on and you will benefit from it. If you allow it to go on, it will just keep happening. I respect private lands, but don't have respect for owners who want to extend their rights beyond what's legal. He's in the wrong and should get a boot up his butt for his trouble (that he's causing).

I hope to kill a small bull this year like you did last year. Congrats on working through it and not letting it ruin your hunt experience.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I think I may have an idea of who "Dale" I have had similar episodes in this district before. There are a lot and I mean a ton of bladed roads in that country that aren't actually public roads. Not saying this was the case in your situation but, I have gotten into it a couple times over this up there. Me being the hunter on the recieving end. Also there's a ton of old fire lines from the fires in 17. Some seem to look like actual roads, however they're not. I'd fight it and tell "Dale" to pack sand and say "I'll see ya next year." Stories like this can ruin a guy's adventure real quick, glad to see you pushed through it and had a successful adventure. Ive seen some landowners do some pretty outlandish stuff not only there but other places as well.

 

[88man]

ONXMaps isn't always right so I might hear out the landowner before you go throwing blows. Land ownership can be complicated.

Exactly!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

ONXMaps isn't always right so I might hear out the landowner before you go throwing blows. Land ownership can be complicated.

I've used it a lot and never found it to be off more than 10' from corner markers or boundary lines and that's why WY G&F GWs are issued a GPS with the chip for land ownership. They are as accurate as what each township/county has on their records that the ONX system uses.

 

[BrentD]

topgun.
Have you ever seen railroad tracks listed as private property on OnX?

I've seen one entire homested - actively being used - shown as public on OnX. So I think there might be a few errors.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

They are as accurate as what each township/county has on their published digital records

OnX consolidates public land records, but they rely upon the counties/townships to keep their maps and records up to date. In many parts of the west land rarely changes hands to this is pretty easy in some areas things change quickly and often the county has a hard time keeping their records current. There are also many local governments that do not have a GIS department and you will sometimes find blank spots on OnX where they were unable to find any information.

This disclaimer or something similar can be found on almost every county GIS web-viewer.



OnXmaps is a great tool but it has it's limitations. Title and mapping disputes can be incredibly complex, please exercise caution, land title is a messy business.

 

[375H&H]

I have never heard about how Onx handles adverse possession, but surely there would be significant mistakes in their software if a rancher found it easier to move the fence 100 feet into public and after the statuted time that land was now his legally. Most people using Onx would probably think you have a right to cross that fence to access public but in reality you don’t.

Doesn’t really matter to me as I will never use Onx but if someone has a link where they discuss adverse possession I would be curious to see it.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I have never heard about how Onx handles adverse possession. I will never use Onx

1. They don't, Onx doesn't create data the various local governments do.

2. Why won't you ever use it?

 

[Washington Hunter]

You can't claim adverse possession against the government. Even if you could, a fence doesn't automatically become the property line after so many years. It would have to go through court first and only then could the property lines be changed.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

topgun.
Have you ever seen railroad tracks listed as private property on OnX?

I've seen one entire homested - actively being used - shown as public on OnX. So I think there might be a few errors.

Nope, never looked at any railroad tracks on my GPS because there aren't any anywhere even close to where I go. I also didn't say there might not be any errors if you read what I said it uses. In regards to the homestead you mentioned, it's possible there was a land exchange and it hasn't been updated on yours. It's good to pay to use their update feature every couple years in case that happens or even other updates are made in an area after your chip/download was purchased.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Had a similar situation 2 years ago down the road from my house. I was scouting a new BLM area and seen some good bucks so i decided to hunt it some. Well the first time i hunted it i got back to my truck and there was a note tied to my door handle. That said this is not public property you can not park here and hunt. Thank you.
I dismissed the note because i knew i had a right of way to park there and went back two days later. That evening i got back to my truck and had another note that said pretty much the same thing and that the sheriff was called.
So i called the sheriff right then. The sheriff never came out to where i was parked and i explained to him what happened and he said he knew the guy leaving the notes and he was just being a pain in the butt. So to avoid confrontation to maybe park somewhere else. I thought this was bull. In my opinion the sheriff is the one who didnt want confrontation. But i listened and the next time i parked a half mile down the road at a church. Well i got back and there was a note again saying you think you are sneaky parking at the church but i know what you do. Mind you none of these notes had names on them. So i went to the BLM office and explained my situation and the guy owned about 5 feet of land between the right of way and the BLM land....literally like 5 feet i told the BLM guy i could just leap over it. He laughed and said if you can go for it. But now i knew who was leaving the notes so i went to his house. And as soon as i got out of my truck he was lighting into me. I kept calm and explained myself and that i talked BLM and the sheriff and he couldnt keep me from parking there and hunting there. His response was i dont care what the BLM says i graze my cattle on that BLM land along with another farmer therefore we own it and he will take every treestand and trail camera he sees down there. So i said i will float in my kayak to access it if you prefer i dont park at the church or side of the road. He says are you short of hearing i manage that property and i dont want you on it and he will take every treestand and trail cam he sees. By this point all sense of civility i had was gone. I said public land means public land and there is nothing you can do about it buddy and if you touch my truck again i will have you prosecuted for vandalism or just break your jaw depending on how i feel that day.
I hunted there the rest of the year parking at the church cause they had cameras outside the building. He never left another note or spoke to me again, but i did have a trail cam stolen. If it was him or not idk.

Some people are just pricks and some of these generational farmers honestly think they own the land cause their family has used it for a 100 years or more. In this case i think the guy honestly thought it was his property cause his property surrounded it and for the record he is prick to!

 

[Scarey]

Don't let this go, if you had been trespassing the land owner would not have rolled over and would have contacted F/G. Nail this guy.

 

[EYJONAS!]

topgun.
Have you ever seen railroad tracks listed as private property on OnX?

I've seen one entire homested - actively being used - shown as public on OnX. So I think there might be a few errors.

I have seen this

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Don't let this go, if you had been trespassing the land owner would not have rolled over and would have contacted F/G. Nail this guy.

If you're talking about post #113, the way his scenario goes even if the guy only has 5' of private property and he walks across that property to get into the BLM he would be trespassing.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

As to post my post #113. The guy is just doing everything he can to keep people off by intimidating them. I can access that land just as easily by Kayak and he knows that. But not everyone has a boat or realizes this. So the landowner guy will intimidate everyone he can hoping they stay away. And when people dont stay away he resorts to stealing treestands and trail cameras to further intimidate. And if that doesnt work like with me he just sucks it up cause he has no leg to stand on legally. Its not worth chasing down any charges on the guy like say harassment or something like that. The slap on the wrist wont stop him. The best thing guys that hunt down there can do is stand there ground and ignore the ornery farmer. And lock your stands and cameras to trees if you feel you have to.

 

[NYyotekiller]

I have never heard about how Onx handles adverse possession, but surely there would be significant mistakes in their software if a rancher found it easier to move the fence 100 feet into public and after the statuted time that land was now his legally. Most people using Onx would probably think you have a right to cross that fence to access public but in reality you don’t.

Doesn’t really matter to me as I will never use Onx but if someone has a link where they discuss adverse possession I would be curious to see it.

Like Washington Hunter previously mentioned, it’s impossible to claim adverse possession against the government which is simply taking yourself to court.

Gaining a piece of property by adversely possessing is a very difficult thing in the real world and looks great on paper until it gets to court. In my 20+ years as a professional Land Surveyor I have only seen a couple of cases of it.

FWIW the only person that can answer an adverse possession claim is a judge/court....Surveyors can’t.

 

[RobG]

I've used it a lot and never found it to be off more than 10' from corner markers or boundary lines and that's why WY G&F GWs are issued a GPS with the chip for land ownership. They are as accurate as what each township/county has on their records that the ONX system uses.

I know a couple places where it is off by 150' or more.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I know a couple places where it is off by 150' or more.

That could well be since it's only as accurate as the maps it's taken from. That's really not the fault of ONX in those situations, but why people still need to be cautious using the system in areas where that may cause a problem. As I mentioned, in all my travels I've not run into any place that was off by more than 10', but that doesn't mean I won't in the future since the systems aren't foolproof the way they get their information.