Land requirements for renewable energy

[Ben Lamb]

I would bet that, that is exactly what gave the investors the idea in the first place

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That crop right there has more profit potential than a public land grazer will see in 3 seasons.

 

[MTGomer]

My concern about these type of large scale projects is that people will be so enthralled about environmental progress away from fossil fuels that they will disregard any impact to wildlife. I don't know that it's bad, but I don't know if its good either. Look at that footprint, it's huge and I imagine a huge fence around it as well. I hope that someone took wildlife in consideration to provide mitigation efforts to it's potential negative impact.

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I took a class at work about the Endangered Species act and how it affects utility projects.

One of the projects the instructor focused on was a major solar farm in Nevada. I think it was Ivanho but I’m not sure off the top of my head.

The permitted take for desert tortoise was calculated based off surveys that were done when the tortoise was inactive and their numbers in the field were grossly underestimated.
The permitted take was hit just a few weeks into the project. It had to be stopped and the permitted take readjusted. Tortoises were relocated away from the project area whenever possible. As the months went on, they would begin showing back up at their former homes, but the solar farm was fenced off. The ones that didn’t get killed on the highway died pacing the fence line.
The presentation even had pictures of it.

 

[BigHornRam]

Nothing is dead until they adjourn & leave town, compadre: https://montanafreepress.org/2021/04/23/northwester-bill-revived-by-ankney/

So yes, that - plus the millions n bailout funds NWE is going to suck up, while at the same time, trying to undermine the PSC so they get rubber-stamped on all of their rate increase requests and getting more socialism for the clean up in the coal ash ponds.

"The committee tabled the bill 11-1. Chair Rep. Derek Skees, R-Kalispell, described himself as a fan of coal, but he was unequivocal in his assessment of the legislation: “This bill does not save Colstrip.”

Ankney tried to power up the effort again with an amendment to another bill. House Bill 695 made it onto the Senate agenda in the last week of the session, but the Senate didn’t take a vote on it."

It's DEAD.

 

[Ben Lamb]

"The committee tabled the bill 11-1. Chair Rep. Derek Skees, R-Kalispell, described himself as a fan of coal, but he was unequivocal in his assessment of the legislation: “This bill does not save Colstrip.”

Ankney tried to power up the effort again with an amendment to another bill. House Bill 695 made it onto the Senate agenda in the last week of the session, but the Senate didn’t take a vote on it."

It's DEAD.

Lol.

It will rise from the grave. Just wait for it.

 

[BigHornRam]

Lol.

It will rise from the grave. Just wait for it.

By then I will be a resident of Wyoming and won't care if it does.

 

[Ben Lamb]

By then I will be a resident of Wyoming and won't care if it does.

Wyoming's inability to come to terms with a changing national energy profile has a few more problems that you'll get tp pay for once you do.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

I took a class at work about the Endangered Species act and how it affects utility projects.

One of the projects the instructor focused on was a major solar farm in Nevada. I think it was Ivanho but I’m not sure off the top of my head.

The permitted take for desert tortoise was calculated based off surveys that were done when the tortoise was inactive and their numbers in the field were grossly underestimated.
The permitted take was hit just a few weeks into the project. It had to be stopped and the permitted take readjusted. Tortoises were relocated away from the project area whenever possible. As the months went on, they would begin showing back up at their former homes, but the solar farm was fenced off. The ones that didn’t get killed on the highway died pacing the fence line.
The presentation even had pictures of it.

At least they were talking about it

 

[BigHornRam]

Wyoming's inability to come to terms with a changing national energy profile has a few more problems that you'll get tp pay for once you do.

I think these guy's are the parent company of the electric company that serves my Wyoming property. Green Montana made electricity right to my door step.

Bridger wind farm could be finished by end of year

A large Montana wind farm near Bridger is on track for completion by year’s end.

billingsgazette.com

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think these guy's are the parent company of the electric company that serves my Wyoming property. Green Montana made electricity right to my door step.

Bridger wind farm could be finished by end of year

A large Montana wind farm near Bridger is on track for completion by year’s end.

billingsgazette.com

Hippy.

 

[BigHornRam]

Hippy.

Hippies smoke weed and put solar panels on their roof. I do neither, hippy.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The huge solar field just south off 287 on the east side of Amarillo mirages a lake....so we've got that going for us.

*Atlas keeps shrugging...

How’s the water skiing?

 

[BigHornRam]

How’s the water skiing?

Depends on how much weed you smoke.

 

[BigHornRam]

Yep. Cheap green electric in Wyoming. Gotta love it Ben!

Utility Takes Step Towards Influx Of Renewables

A large western utility with customers in 10 western states including Wyoming is preparing to make its largest request for new renewable energy ever. It's…

www.wyomingpublicmedia.org

 

[SAJ-99]

What we are seeing is lawsuits from fossil fuel production states.
https://www.denverpost.com/2021/05/03/wyoming-backs-coal-colorado-energy/

But there are other changes in renewables. The issue almost always boils down to "How can we tax it?". The money shot from the article below...

Powerful advancements in offshore wind technology — think massive wind turbines on floating platforms out in the ocean — could shift developers’ attention away from the Great Plains region to the coasts in the near future.
“Offshore is ramping up quickly,” Naughton said, “But there are still a lot of unknowns.”

https://billingsgazette.com/news/st...cle_02a675c3-3f41-5953-8367-3413478a132f.html

 

[stevejfarms]

Yup - but it's really less space because food production turn rates and yield is higher under their method - like 27 times less. The company in the report is already feeding NYC. It's also less for food because much of that land isn't for food, its in ethanol production. I think that they only have plans for leafy greens and vining plants though. I haven't seen anything with root vegetables.

from the WWW

Cropland- About 349 million acres in the U.S. are planted for crops. This is the equivalent of about four states the size of Montana. Four crops -- feeder corn (80 million acres), soybeans (75 million acres), alfalfa hay (61 million acres) and wheat (62 million acres) -- make up 80 percent of total crop acreage.

The amount of land used to produce all vegetables in the U.S. is less than 3 million acres.

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I find it hard to believe that New York City is being fed from a greenhouse. You might need to check your sources,
.

 

[stevejfarms]

Yup - but it's really less space because food production turn rates and yield is higher under their method - like 27 times less. The company in the report is already feeding NYC. It's also less for food because much of that land isn't for food, its in ethanol production. I think that they only have plans for leafy greens and vining plants though. I haven't seen anything with root vegetables.

from the WWW

Cropland- About 349 million acres in the U.S. are planted for crops. This is the equivalent of about four states the size of Montana. Four crops -- feeder corn (80 million acres), soybeans (75 million acres), alfalfa hay (61 million acres) and wheat (62 million acres) -- make up 80 percent of total crop acreage.

The amount of land used to produce all vegetables in the U.S. is less than 3 million acres.

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Also need to check your math, corn and soybeans will account for roughly 180 million acres this year in the US alone.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

I can see why largescale utilities don't want to deal with millions of potential generation sources versus a few, but between modern advances in engineering, etc I think that small-scale grid, with overarching national grid supply, makes a ton of sense, especially for places like CA that have to so much real eastate to help offset the rolling brownouts already in play. Texas as well. When the storm hit Texas, it wasn't really that they lost capacity to generate, they really and truly managed for the least costly method of preparedness, and that's what killed the power.

If every new construction was required to have renewable capability built in (wiring, supports, etc) rather than push that cost off to a later date, then we would see even more household solar come on line. Just like how houses went to be being designed for electricity or plumbing around the turn of the last century.

Stoop it - that's making too much since!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I can see why largescale utilities don't want to deal with millions of potential generation sources versus a few, but between modern advances in engineering, etc I think that small-scale grid, with overarching national grid supply, makes a ton of sense, especially for places like CA that have to so much real eastate to help offset the rolling brownouts already in play. Texas as well. When the storm hit Texas, it wasn't really that they lost capacity to generate, they really and truly managed for the least costly method of preparedness, and that's what killed the power.

If every new construction was required to have renewable capability built in (wiring, supports, etc) rather than push that cost off to a later date, then we would see even more household solar come on line. Just like how houses went to be being designed for electricity or plumbing around the turn of the last century.

I agree wholeheartedly that it would be nice to have solar in place where development has already occurred but there are a lot of challenges that haven't yet been overcome with doing so. I don't think most folks understand how the grid works. It basically needs to generate what the demanded load is or you get blackouts. Existing distribution (not transmission) networks were not designed to have a bunch of additional uncontrolled solar generators backfeeding the grid. I know this became a real problem for the grid in some places like hawaii. Utility scale solar projects need to be compliant with stringent physical and digital security requirements of NERC. I'm not sure how that works when the entirety of your generation is easily accessed in thousands of little spots.

It's a hell of a lot more economical to set and wire up a million panels in one spot in an open area all going to one substation than to have hundreds or thousands of little installments, each with their own grid interface. I can't fathom how that it would even work without completely redoing how our grid operates.

I have been working in utility scale renewables since 2010.

 

[Wildabeest]

I’ve always wondered why huge parking lots aren’t covered with solar panels. Protection from the elements for cars and drivers, and generating power from already developed space. But instead they put huge arrays in big open country negatively impacting habitats. I’m sure there’s some technical or financial reason.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

Also need to check your math, corn and soybeans will account for roughly 180 million acres this year in the US alone.

Well to be honest I thought that, that was a questionable source. There was no math involved as it was cited from the web. Normally, I like to have my stuff squared away, but I was looking that up fast as we were just having fun chatting (spit balling), about ideas of sustainability of green energy, land and water use. Unfortunately, I didn't cite the source properly. So, I looked up USDA crop acreage data report as of Jan 5, 2021 (see site bellow).

https://www.fsa.usda.gov/news-room/...requested-information/crop-acreage-data/index

This is different than the previous source - I wanted to put some extra effort into it. I'm not a farmer so perhaps I'm misinterpreting this or its due to not all acreage is reported. Perhaps this crop of soy was harvested and a new one of 180MM acres was planted, I don't know.

According to this USDA crop acreage data report, the US has 82MM acers under soybean as of Jan 5 of this year. Maybe this is based on crop acreage in a specific growing cycle? Are there two plus growing cycles for soybeans or turning fields with non-soy crops to soy to extend the production? The total acres are somewhat close to the 349 MM from the previous source.



Unfortunately, I couldn't attach the spreadsheet (as the forum doesn't support), so I provided a pdf for a quick preview if you wish. You could download the workbook from the USDA if you follow the link provided.

This data was provided by only those farmers who are receiving a subsidy so many farms may be omitted.

Farm Service Agency policy requires that producers participating in several programs submit an annual report regarding all cropland use on their farms. These programs include Agriculture Risk Coverage (ARC) and Price Loss Coverage (PLC). Reporting also applies to those who receive marketing assistance loans or loan deficiency payments. Failure to file an accurate and timely acreage report for all crops and land uses can result in loss of program benefits. Producers are required to self report all cropland on each farm to FSA annually. FSA uses these data to determine payment eligibility (land must be in an eligible agricultural use to qualify for payments) and to calculate losses for various disaster programs. Data are reported in the following categories: planted; prevented planted; and failed. In addition, the National Agricultural Statistics Service uses FSA planted acreage data to complement their survey data. For more information, visit the NASS website at www.nass.usda.gov.

CNBC also did a very similar story to the previous one that I shared. It appears that there is a lot of venture capital money being bet on standardizing farming in environmentally controlled space.

Here is the source: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/30/food-and-agriculture-start-ups-raised-record-22point3-billion-in-2020.html?&qsearchterm=farm report

"Kukutai said that drove interest in growing food in controlled environments, such as vertical farms, where yields are predictable. These indoor farms are often built closer to the urban centers where much of the produce they grow will be consumed.

Agtech companies raised around $5 billion across 416 deals in 2020. The top 10 largest deals in agriculture tech included four rounds for indoor farming businesses, ranging from a $140 million round for Plenty to a $203 million round for Revol Greens.

Venture capitalists haven’t always been attracted to “agrifood.” Funds historically saw these businesses as capital-intensive and unlikely to generate big returns, although there were rare exceptions, such as Trinity Ventures’ investment in Starbucks years before its IPO in 1992.

In 2011, just $3 million in venture funding went to companies in agriculture tech, across a scant 42 deals, and $1 million in venture funding went to companies in food tech across 22 deals."