Isle royale wolf\moose study

[cheeser]

Isle Royale Winter Study: Fewer Wolves, Fewer Moose

There are at least 12 to 14 wolves on the island and an estimated 1,876 moose. Twenty-five moose were outfitted with GPS-enabled radio collars this year.

www.mtu.edu

 

[COEngineer]

Kind of wish they would use hunters to thin the moose instead of wolves that are just as interested in killing each other as the moose.

 

[matt0550]

Kind of wish they would use hunters to thin the moose instead of wolves that are just as interested in killing each other as the moose.

We've been saying that for years- apparently the answer has been that its #1 national park and $2 would mess with the wolf/moose study

 

[Pagosa]

What a bunch of dumbass left wing liberals the NPS is, I can’t stand these jack wagons. It took no telling how much money to tell us wolves kill a moose about every other day! No shit!

 

[FI460]

What a bunch of dumbass left wing liberals the NPS is, I can’t stand these jack wagons. It took no telling how much money to tell us wolves kill a moose about every other day! No shit!

Little more than that going on with Isle Royale. It's an ideal place for predator prey research as it's nearly a closed system. All of our text book examples come from these studies.

 

[appaloosa]

We've been saying that for years- apparently the answer has been that its #1 national park and $2 would mess with the wolf/moose study

I am all for hunters and their role in wildlife management, but what is wrong with having a few of these scenarios play out under controlled conditions to investigate the predator/prey dynamics. This is the foundation for our understanding of how moose and wolves behave together and furthers our understanding of how they interact. National parks are a petri dish for studying the outside world.

 

[homers]

IR is not the easiest or cheapest place to get to. Especially for hunters given the hunts would have to take place late in the year when weather would not be good.

 

[VikingsGuy]

IR is not the easiest or cheapest place to get to. Especially for hunters given the hunts would have to take place late in the year when weather would not be good.

Just a short boat ride from my cabin - I would be happy to punch a ticket there if one was offered - so would my neighbors (not arguing for a hunt over DNR study, but accessibility is not the real issue)

 

[get-n-birdy]

Will be interesting to see how things play out in the next chapter of the islands moose and wolf populations.

 

[88man]

Little more than that going on with Isle Royale. It's an ideal place for predator prey research as it's nearly a closed system. All of our text book examples come from these studies.

But its a closed system.

 

[COEngineer]

But its a closed system.

This is a good point. Now we will know what happens in an environment that doesn't exist anywhere else.

 

[FI460]

But its a closed system.

Is your point to correct my claim that it's "nearly" a closed system? I included that as I expected someone to bring up an emigration example.

Or is your point to suggest that since it's a closed system it's not an appropriate model for an open system? I'd disagree with that. While it may not be perfect for broad ecological studies islands have been used as closed systems and extrapolated to the population at large since the dawn of ecology.

 

[FI460]

This is a good point. Now we will know what happens in an environment that doesn't exist anywhere else.

Guess we should throw out all that deer and elk research from Starkey then, huh?

 

[COEngineer]

Guess we should throw out all that deer and elk research from Starkey then, huh?

I don't know much about Starkey. I understand that removing variables is necessary for some research, but having more moose on an island than there are in all of Colorado is really far removed from reality.

 

[huronmtns]

Guys, please expand on your one or two sentence comments. I believe the latest comments have merit but is not explained deep enough to fully understand some of the variables that are being discussed. This thread could be a great educational discussion for any who read it.

 

[OntarioHunter]

First, neither the wolves nor moose are native to the island. Originally it had woodland caribou. I edited a Jesuit mission translation project from mid 19th century and they noted the natives hunted "deer" exclusively on IR (whitetails are a very late arrival in that area). Near as can be determined, settlers brought moose over sometime in the early 20th century. Story has it they were transported in the mail steamer. With no predators and the mining boom ended, moose numbers skyrocketed until they had literally grazed the place down to bare rock and were starving by the hundreds. Wolves apparently smelled the stench of carrion and crossed the 25 miles on ice during a cold winter. Since then it's been a roller coaster of mutual booms and die offs of both species. More recently the wolf population went into serious decline in spite of booming moose numbers. They determined the wolf gene pool was too small and inbreeding was taking them out. That's about the time I left the US Park Service ten years ago. The quandary was whether to let nature take it's course and turn the island again into a stinking moose graveyard or introduce some fresh wolf blood (totally "unnatural"). Sounds like tourism outvoted the "natural way" if there's that many wolves today. When I left the NPS I seem to recall the number was less than six. My preference would be to get rid of both species and return the island to caribou habitat. But not sure that would work well with tourism industry. Woodland caribou don't do well with a lot of human contact. Isle Royale is certainly a peculiar management situation.

 

[88man]

First, neither the wolves nor moose are native to the island. Originally it had woodland caribou. I edited a Jesuit mission translation project from mid 19th century and they noted the natives hunted "deer" exclusively on IR (whitetails are a very late arrival in that area). Near as can be determined, settlers brought moose over sometime in the early 20th century. Story has it they were transported in the mail steamer. With no predators and the mining boom ended, moose numbers skyrocketed until they had literally grazed the place down to bare rock and were starving by the hundreds. Wolves apparently smelled the stench of carrion and crossed the 25 miles on ice during a cold winter. Since then it's been a roller coaster of mutual booms and die offs of both species. More recently the wolf population went into serious decline in spite of booming moose numbers. They determined the wolf gene pool was too small and inbreeding was taking them out. That's about the time I left the US Park Service ten years ago. The quandary was whether to let nature take it's course and turn the island again into a stinking moose graveyard or introduce some fresh wolf blood (totally "unnatural"). Sounds like tourism outvoted the "natural way" if there's that many wolves today. When I left the NPS I seem to recall the number was less than six. My preference would be to get rid of both species and return the island to caribou habitat. But not sure that would work well with tourism industry. Woodland caribou don't do well with a lot of human contact. Isle Royale is certainly a peculiar management situation.

Bingo!

 

[Bowhunter999]

This is a good point. Now we will know what happens in an environment that doesn't exist anywhere else.

If it doesn’t exist anywhere else, of what use is it ? Where would the learned information be transferred to.....if there is no someplace else??

 

[Sytes]

Little more than that going on with Isle Royale. It's an ideal place for predator prey research as it's nearly a closed system. All of our text book examples come from these studies.

Semi old school thread though it's a bit of a stretch... to consider this a predator/prey research that all our text book examples are built on these studies.

An attempt to use wolf studies for common wide open spaces on a 53 mile sized area? Bull chit. It's Dr. Jeckel Island study of inbreeding.
Wolf packs (plural emphasis) are not stuffed within a 53 mile area to share insight how wolf packs operate elsewhere.

Inbreeding Causes Isle Royale Wolf Population Crash | American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)

Each of the two remaining wolves from a population that has been followed for 60 years is more susceptible to inheriting two harmful copies of a particular gene, the researchers found.

www.aaas.org

Genomics of Isle Royale wolves reveal impacts of inbreeding

A new paper explores the genetic signatures of a pair of wolves isolated on Isle Royale, a remote national park in Lake Superior. The pair are father-daughter and share the same mother. Such close inbreeding leads to genetic anomalies, which likely are the main driver behind the wolf population...

phys.org

Isle Royale Wolves Fall Prey to Inbreeding Problems

Isle Royale Wolves Fall Prey to Inbreeding Problems. By Jennifer Donovan | Published 8:53 a.m., March 26, 2013

www.mtu.edu

Extra ribs, crooked backs show inbreeding that caused Isle Royale’s old wolf packs to crash

A new report examines the genetics of the last two island-born wolves on Isle Royale, as well as the remains of other pack mates.

www.mlive.com

And the reality?

Replacing wolves on Isle Royale is bad policy and worse science

Overview: Isle Royale is an island in Lake Superior that is designated as a Wilderness Area and managed by the National Park Service. In the 20th century, wolves and moose migrated to the island an…

www.azandisresearch.com

The real myth is conflating wolf presence with Isle Royale’s natural state, and in this case, it seems a personal mythology crafted to shore the legacy of Peterson’s research project.

Permit humans to be part of the process for moose population control. We're not aliens of this planet... we are an integral component to our conservation efforts. Feed hungry, produce research revenue and boot the eco extremists to the curb.

 

[FI460]

An ecosystem does not have to be in a pre-Columbian natural state to study the ecology and learn from it. Nature is dynamic, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to figure it out in the snapshots we're provided. You don't just give up when the system you're studying isn't a perfect representation of the whole.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it "bull chit." When I say this is a textbook example I'm not laying out my opinion on the study. I'm saying this was literally published in every general biology textbook I encountered at university. A lot has been learned here, and more will be learned in the future.

As far as the island gripe: Isle Royale may not be a perfect analogy to interior rocky mountain wolves, but wolves are not isolated to the rocky mountains. There are plenty of populations of island wolves around the world.

I agree that humans are part of the ecosystem, and I think it would be cool if humans were able to help manage the moose population on the island. Unfortunately land managers have decided not to utilize hunters in this instance. Doesn't mean one should be defeatist about potential research though.