Is it blown up?

[VikingsGuy]

Interesting fact Washington state has 281 cases and 24 deaths. There goes the 3 percent that keeps being thrown around. That's pushing closer to 10 percent.

The danger of preliminary statistics -- the Wash outbreak sadly hit an elderly center so the initial outbreak hit an audience with an expected 15% death rate. For "healthy" folks under 70 the number is more like 1.5%. But again, early population statistics by definition are subject to significant change.

 

[VikingsGuy]

WA has way more then 281 cases. At this point we're closer to China in under reporting cases. I know two people that called concerned that they had the virus and in both cases the health care entity told them to stay at home for 3 to 5 days and call back if their conditions deteriorated. The warned them not to come in, they would not be treated or see.

Thumbs up for our wonderful American health care system.

It's because the number of people with the common cold and good old fashioned influenza far out number the people who have (and likely will have) CV. No medical system in the world can have all of its citizens dropping by an ER every time they cough. The average American adult has 2 colds per year - you can't treat 200 million people at once just because they have a cough or are sneezing. Frankly no medical system in the world could cover even all the CV patients in the 80% that have symptoms no greater than the common cold. The key is for people to be treated when their symptoms warrant treatment. This is a virus, there are no meds to hand out as a placebo or preliminary attack - there is no value in seeking early preventative "caught it early" treatment. But there is value in staying home away from others during this intermediate time - both to limit the spread of whatever you have and to not unnecessarily used emergency treatments needed by those sicker than you.

As for access and time to treatment in various medical systems I will save that for another day (or not as this is a hunting forum), but there is no doubt that 90% of Americans have more and faster access to medical care than any other system on the plant. What we haven't done is effectively solve for the 10%.

 

[VikingsGuy]

i have a suspicion that a healthcare system not able/ready/capable/designed to handle such an influx is uniquely american

Either there is a typo here or you lack a lot of information about global health care staffing.

 

[Irrelevant]

It's because the number of people with the common cold and good old fashioned influenza far out number the people who have (and likely will have) CV. No medical system in the world can have all of its citizens dropping by an ER every time they cough. The average American adult has 2 colds per year - you can't treat 200 million people at once just because they have a cough or are sneezing. Frankly no medical system in the world could cover even all the CV patients in the 80% that have symptoms no greater than the common cold. The key is for people to be treated when their symptoms warrant treatment. This is a virus, there are no meds to hand out as a placebo or preliminary attack - there is no value in seeking early preventative "caught it early" treatment. But there is value in staying home away from others during this intermediate time - both to limit the spread of whatever you have and to not unnecessarily used emergency treatments needed by those sicker than you.

As for access and time to treatment in various medical systems I will save that for another day (or not as this is a hunting forum), but there is no doubt that 90% of Americans have more and faster access to medical care than any other system on the plant. What we haven't done is effectively solve for the 10%.

You and I have gone down this road before. One of those two people is 60+ with complicating health issues. I repeat. THAT IS NOT HEALTHCARE. Yet we're forking out tons of cash every month for a card that claims we have health care, the is supposed to mean that when you are sick you can see a doctor. But that's not what we get. It is the most broken system in our country.

The CDC say "many if not the majority of Americans will get the virus"

 

[VikingsGuy]

You and I have gone down this road before. One of those two people is 60+ with complicating health issues. I repeat. THAT IS NOT HEALTHCARE. Yet we're forking out tons of cash every month for a card that claims we have health care, the is supposed to mean that when you are sick you can see a doctor. But that's not what we get. It is the most broken system in our country.

The CDC say "many if not the majority of Americans will get the virus"

If your standard is to get seen whenever you want regardless of the scientifically education protocol and the needs of others, then that is fine, but that exists nowhere in the world. And the place closest to it is the US.

When a new virus enters a population you can get huge numbers of new cases ((thankfully most are subclinical) - we are talking tens or hundreds of millions - even free pharmaceuticals, 80% marginal tax rate and 95% GDP dedication could not fully fund a system waiting around for the next event of that scale.

 

[TOGIE]

Either there is a typo here or you lack a lot of information about global health care staffing.

There is a typo.

Throw “not” after “is”

I didn’t notice it myself and was drumming up a snarky response, and was quite confused by your statement

Edited now

 

[VikingsGuy]

There is a typo.

Throw “not” after “is”

I didn’t notice it myself and was drumming up a snarky response, and was quite confused by your statement

Edited now

That's OK, neffa is plenty able to give me all the snarky I can handle

 

[VikingsGuy]

And I will continue to give us little interludes:

 

[WyoDoug]

Here is my thoughts on this:

(1) We need to get the politics out of it. Both sides are trying to gain political points in an election year.

(2) We need to respond smartly, not with hysteria. Surgical masks do no good to stop COVID-19. Smartest thing you can do is very good hygiene practices you were taught in school.

(3) Do what it takes to prevent it's spread as much as humanely possible but do not over react. Throwing money at the problem is a waste of money if it does not go where it needs to go. Put the money into researching a cure and find out everything there is to know about COVID-19. Put money into relief for industries and people affected by both the pandemic and the hysteria related to it. And yes, an over-abundance of caution is appropriate until we know more about this virus.

(4) Don't run out and buy out all the water, hand sanitizer and TP. That is not going to help. Stores here are out of all three items. My doctor recommends common unscented hand soap over sanitizer. I have seen reports of people selling cases of water and TP on the black market already. Unreal.

(5) Listen to the experts in the field, not politicians, media or political hacks and pundits.

 

[TOGIE]

That's OK, neffa is plenty able to give me all the snarky I can handle

It’s a poorly worded sentence to begin with, hence the initial typo, and further why I didn’t even notice it. I’ll save the preloaded snark now for another time

 

[BuzzH]

Here is my thoughts on this:

(1) We need to get the politics out of it. Both sides are trying to gain political points in an election year.

(2) We need to respond smartly, not with hysteria. Surgical masks do no good to stop COVID-19. Smartest thing you can do is very good hygiene practices you were taught in school.

(3) Do what it takes to prevent it's spread as much as humanely possible but do not over react. Throwing money at the problem is a waste of money if it does not go where it needs to go. Put the money into researching a cure and find out everything there is to know about COVID-19. Put money into relief for industries and people affected by both the pandemic and the hysteria related to it. And yes, an over-abundance of caution is appropriate until we know more about this virus.

(4) Don't run out and buy out all the water, hand sanitizer and TP. That is not going to help. Stores here are out of all three items. My doctor recommends common unscented hand soap over sanitizer. I have seen reports of people selling cases of water and TP on the black market already. Unreal.

(5) Listen to the experts in the field, not politicians, media or political hacks and pundits.

So, WyoDoug, what expert were you listening to when you made this statement?:

My opinion is that if we were not in a heated election year we would not have this hysteria.

 

[WyoDoug]

It’s a poorly worded sentence to begin with, hence the initial typo, and further why I didn’t even notice it. I’ll save the preloaded snark now for another time

LOL we got grammar cops in here too.

 

[VikingsGuy]

LOL we got grammar cops in here too.

The difference between, "your dog is not dead" and "your dog is dead" is not a problem of grammar

 

[VikingsGuy]

And a little more:

 

[mtmuley]

View attachment 130559

Ha. My sister-in-law is a manager at Costco. I'm set. Lots of TP here. I have a few things I need I'd trade for. Keep it in mind guys. mtmuley

 

[Irrelevant]

If your standard is to get seen whenever you want regardless of the scientifically education protocol and the needs of others...

Who gets to decide when you become the other? Because it sure as shit isn't the patient and if you can't be seen it isn't the provider.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Who gets to decide when you become the other? Because it sure as shit isn't the patient and if you can't be seen it isn't the provider.

I am paraphrasing, but the CDC and Mayo agree the current criteria to be tested is: (1) you have a fever which does not respond to OTC meds AND (2) you are experiencing difficulty breathing. OR (3) you have either (1) OR (2) AND have been to a level 3 location and/or been exposed to a known CV patient. That's pretty simple over the phone.

 

[dcopas78]

Don't run out and buy out all the water

I've been getting info all week from water organizations about this virus and how effective chlorine is against it. It is an enveloped virus which is the easiest virus type to kill with chlorination of 0.5 mg/l for a 30 minute contact time. Standards dictate 2 mg/l free chlorine for 30 minutes as the minimum required in the treatment plant. Not to mention the chlorine residuals required in distribution piping. I think we're good with tap water.

 

[Irrelevant]

I am paraphrasing, but the CDC and Mayo agree the current criteria to be tested is: (1) you have a fever which does not respond to OTC meds AND (2) you are experiencing difficulty breathing. OR (3) you have either (1) OR (2) AND have been to a level 3 location and/or been exposed to a known CV patient. That's pretty simple over the phone.

Pretty simple? How are you ever going to know if you've been in contact with a known CV patient if people can't be tested?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Pretty simple? How are you ever going to know if you've been in contact with a known CV patient if people can't be tested?

Then the answer is NO (as it is "unknown") and you revert the the first test. I get the anxiety and I get the desire to be tested and comforted, but this part of the problem is fairly straight forward and will adapt as scientific knowledge grows, test availability increases, and hopefully cases start dropping in a month or so if we follow the china curve.