Indiana: High Fence Hunting Judicial Decision

[blb078]

This would be a much more compelling argument if it weren't for the fact that much of the spread of CWD can be traced back to game farms/shooting preserves. It's much deeper than merely not agreeing with shooting animals behind a high fence. If there was no threat to native wildlife populations, I couldn't care less about what "hunts" were sold.

There are many laws that limit what can be done on private land out of concern for wildlife populations.

And when cwd was spread what safeguards where put in place? I'm going to take a guess that there was little to none.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Yea, I don't get it either. I'm putting in a nuclear dump site on my property here and people are getting all up in the air over it. Regulate? How about get over it, and buy yourself a lead coat.

Way to go SS, I love dripping sarcasm when properly applied.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Basically what should be done, in my opinion, is that the private ownership of native big game animals should be illegal, period. If someone wants to have a hunting preserve, let them have domestic pigs, horses, goats, cattle, whatever. As long as they're not using whitetail deer, elk, mule deer.

Agreed 100%. Just like Wyoming, no game farms allowed.

 

[shoots-straight]

Not exactly the same comparison, a little dramatic don't you think, like I stated, there is a lot of "I don't like it so it shouldn't be allowed", and you just proved my point, and even more of it keeps showing up. I agree that proper regulation and safeguards should be put in place. There was just a post about a train hitting a bunch of elk and killing them at once, should we not allow trains or any ground transportation anymore? Should we not allow guns anymore because there's a lot of people that don't like them either, should we not allow hunting? Get over yourself. Here's a news flash for you or anyone, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad or should be banned. There is already enough gov't saying we can't do something, we don't need more of it.

And just so you know, proper regulations and safeguards wouldn't allow you to have you nuclear dump....see how that works!

See is what you and others that hate all regulations don't get is your rights, don't supersede my rights.

As long as what you want to do doesn't infringe upon my right have at it. Game farms are a direct threat to my rights:

Do I not have a right to a healthful environment? Game farms are a disease breeding factory. FACT!

They threaten our wild game populations in several ways. One they take access to habitat away from our wild ungulates, they even close off migration routes with the game farm fencing, and many times they are set up on winter range that the public's wildlife need to survive. Then the disease issue comes up. In Montana and other states mass shooting off of wild ungulates have taken place because game farm disease's have spread to those herds.

They have opened the door to wildlife thievery. Paperwork on animals that die are kept then used on wild captured animals. This has happened more than once. Was common in Montana before law changed.

I'm not even tapping into the social aspects of why game farms suck either. You can keep em in your state I don't want to tell the good people there what they should do.

On the other hand don't tell me to get over the threats to my wildlife populations here. Educate yourself on those threats first.

The threats to the wildlife in Montana are too great to play around with. The rights of a few do not outweigh the rights of the many.

 

[1_pointer]

The high fence "hunting" bill is Senate Bill 109 which passed out of the Senate Natural Resources Committee today. I spoke in opposition because it shifts regulation of high fence captive cervids and sheep away from the Department of Natural Resources to the Board of Animal Health, defines the animals as livestock, but identifies the operations as "hunting preserves."

For my Indiana friends who may be willing to write their State Reps and Senators, I have some suggestions for amendments:

I think the most prudent plan is to request the DNR be in control as opposed to the BOAH, because the DNR will have to deal with whatever disease spread problems that may result and they have the biologists who have been monitoring and protecting our natural deer heard for the past several decades, require insurance, require double fencing with a gap of at least 3 feet between the fences, increase the minimum acreage from the now 80 acres to 3 times that, and by all means--remove the label "hunting preserve" from the bill. If we are going to be stuck with this industry, at least we don't have to have a statute that calls this practice of shooting livestock "hunting."

If anyone needs some help with drafting a letter, or has any questions, please feel free to contact me via private message.

Thanks for the reminder. I had read about the bill this weekend, but spaced it with all that I had going on. Emails going out today. I agree with most of your suggestions and will be sure to voice my concern.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

The problem with high fence areas in the Midwest is that the incidents of CWD and other disease outbreaks occur almost exclusively in the areas with game farms so it isn't really a private property issue when it affects the wildlife in the trust of the state.

 

[blb078]

See is what you and others that hate all regulations don't get is your rights, don't supersede my rights.

As long as what you want to do doesn't infringe upon my right have at it. Game farms are a direct threat to my rights:

Do I not have a right to a healthful environment? Game farms are a disease breeding factory. FACT!

They threaten our wild game populations in several ways. One they take access to habitat away from our wild ungulates, they even close off migration routes with the game farm fencing, and many times they are set up on winter range that the public's wildlife need to survive. Then the disease issue comes up. In Montana and other states mass shooting off of wild ungulates have taken place because game farm disease's have spread to those herds.

They have opened the door to wildlife thievery. Paperwork on animals that die are kept then used on wild captured animals. This has happened more than once. Was common in Montana before law changed.

I'm not even tapping into the social aspects of why game farms suck either. You can keep em in your state I don't want to tell the good people there what they should do.

On the other hand don't tell me to get over the threats to my wildlife populations here. Educate yourself on those threats first.

The threats to the wildlife in Montana are too great to play around with. The rights of a few do not outweigh the rights of the many.

Here's where you just don't get it, unproperly managed and regulated game farms are a threat, however properly managed ones if done correctly would not. You're basing you're whole argument off unmanaged and regulated farms. You can't do that because there hasn't been anything in place to regulate them and no one has been give given a chance with regulation. Proper safeguards and testing, whether that be double fencing, hell can be the entire operation in a large concrete box for a fence for all I care, might cost a ton but if what it takes go ahead. But you're trying to shut down something that hasn't even been given the chance to be properly regulated. I have to deal with this on a daily basis with on of my businesses in the ecig industry. People just want to shut it down but don't want to put any rules in place to regulate it.

Here' let me give you a taste of your own argument. The wildlife you speak of that are a threat, they are not just "your" wildlife, they are the people of your states wildlife. I'm going to guess that there is probably people in your state that don't like hunting, and hunting threatens their wildlife, so should they shut hunting down? After all it threatens their wildlife like you just stated, no it shouldn't it should be properly managed and regulated and there we have tags limits, fees, etc. You see how that works or do I need to draw you a picture? Again you don't like it so it shouldn't be allowed, A lot of people don't like hunting, guess that shouldn't be allowed either.

 

[shoots-straight]

Here's where you just don't get it, unproperly managed and regulated game farms are a threat, however properly managed ones if done correctly would not. You're basing you're whole argument off unmanaged and regulated farms. You can't do that because there hasn't been anything in place to regulate them and no one has been give given a chance with regulation. Proper safeguards and testing, whether that be double fencing, hell can be the entire operation in a large concrete box for a fence for all I care, might cost a ton but if what it takes go ahead. But you're trying to shut down something that hasn't even been given the chance to be properly regulated. I have to deal with this on a daily basis with on of my businesses in the ecig industry. People just want to shut it down but don't want to put any rules in place to regulate it.

Here' let me give you a taste of your own argument. The wildlife you speak of that are a threat, they are not just "your" wildlife, they are the people of your states wildlife. I'm going to guess that there is probably people in your state that don't like hunting, and hunting threatens their wildlife, so should they shut hunting down? After all it threatens their wildlife like you just stated, no it shouldn't it should be properly managed and regulated and there we have tags limits, fees, etc. You see how that works or do I need to draw you a picture? Again you don't like it so it shouldn't be allowed, A lot of people don't like hunting, guess that shouldn't be allowed either.

I get it fine. You don't read to good. I pointed out that even with regulations things like transferring of paper work from dead game farm animals to wild ones goes on. There's already regulations saying that stealing elk are illegal but game farms open the door to that kind of thing. Double fencing can't stop a mouse from getting coughed on from an Elk that's contracted TB on the enclosed side walking out of the enclosure and giving that disease to the wild ones. Trees fall accross double fencing and animals get out. Do you know the threat that game farm elk ( with red deer gene's)pose to wild ones? How would you like to roar up you elk in September because they started to lose their bugling capability. How about antler's that start crowing out on top. You can't do blood tests on all the captive elk and get accurate results on that yet. The gene might show up several generations down the road after being missed.

Dude, what part of Majority rule, with minority rights don't you get? We only have hunting today because it serves the greater good. We could lose it at any time because of things like GAME FARMS. That are looked at poorly by the 80 % of the population that doesn't hunt but controls what we do.

 

[JDH]

How do you "properly regulate" a game farm when a tornado comes through and drops a tree on the fence and the game escapes? Or a small animal gets through the fence, eats at a bait station and picks up a virus or bacteria, then crawls back through the fence and transmits it to a deer?

Looks like I got a little exited and didn't read shoots-straights post all the way through.

 

[O C Hunter]

Shut them down completely. They have no right to use their private property in such a way that endangers the deer herd.