Imminent National Catastrophe?

[BuzzH]

Ringer,

Of course I'm right, thats why you dont have an argument.

Take my home town of Missoula, MT. Used to be lots of small mills, still a few larger ones around. The raw materials are still there, the mill my Dad works in has managed to find logs the whole time the "hippies" shut the woods down. Why is it that the large companies have still managed to find logs...while your small time buddies cant?

Sure, the small mills shut down, they cant go through 300,000 BF of logs per shift like the Stimson mill in Bonner. They cant fill an order for a company like Home Depot either, they likely cant even compete with Home Depot for what they sell 2x4's for.

The big lumber companies are just the wal-mart of the lumber industry. Small businesses get gobble up. Corporate America baby...

 

[BigHornRam]

"The difference with DF and Spruce is that they arent as even-aged on a stand level. In other words, the younger trees within a stand are usually not going to be infected with pathogens and/or insects."

What I'm seeing lately around here, is fir trees young and old are dying in localized areas. Mostly on dry south slopes. I agree that the high cost of fuel and the current low value of lumber due to the housing slow down is making any logging economically impracticle at this time. Helecopter logging would make sense to selectively harvest some of the big dead firs if market conditions were better, but they are not, so looks like most of them will rot in in the woods.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree, if stumpage was higher, helicopter logging would be feasable and I wouldnt have any problem with that.

Also wouldnt have a problem with logging near existing roads to get dead or dying timber out of the woods.

I just dont support any new road building unless the roads are temporary and are completely obliterated after logging.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Yeah, the Scout Camp kept trying to say that no one would cut down their trees without a huge expense since there were no longer any local timber mills. I finally got through to them that if they let a timber company cut down some healthy trees and keep the lumber in addition to cutting down the infested trees, they could get it done cheaply or for free. The timber needed to be thinned, radically, both for fire prevention and for forest health. So they got rid of the diseased trees and had their forest thinned for free.....

 

[1_pointer]

So, even if left to rot and then burn, in the end, where's the 'Catastrophe'?

Also, would the use of 'smaller' prescribed fires be of any use? Would these be able to start the regeneration of some of these stands so that the age classes are more dispersed? Is it possible to get stand replacing fires in controllable situation?

I don't work with much lodgepole, unfortunately I get to deal mostly with juniper and lots of it!

 

[BigHornRam]

"where's the 'Catastrophe'?"

The tourism and real estate industry. People coming to Colorado like to see green trees, not brown ones.

 

[1_pointer]

Still not seeing the 'Catastrophe'... I'd bet that CO has lost more aspen acreage in the last 50-100yrs than the acreage of lodgepole that might be 'catastrophied'...

 

[elk_hunter]

I don't know...perhaps catastrophe isn't right best word. Of course, if all bone dry forests across the country burned, we'd have a lot of short-term problems to deal with.

 

[lilbiggun]

Beetles are nothing new, we have had that problem for along time.

The copper river basin is basically dead (not sure on sq miliage but its huge), the kenai peninsula is the same way and same with the matsu valley.

Anchorage is a ticking timebomb due to fire.

I think controlled burns are good cuz it makes a firebreak (in theory). a couple years back, the forestry genius's decided to burn an area around kenai lake to get rid of the dead beetle trees. these colledge idiots, lit the fire during the hottest time of the year with little precipitation and walked away. guess how that worked for them. we were breathing smoke for a while.

Atleast anchorage is spending some money on clearing and burning the trees to make a so-called safe fire zone.

Cold doesnt kill them, copper river basin can be in the -40'ish for weeks at a time and they still come back.

Not sure what the answer is, but it would be nice if someone came up with one.