Im bowing out

[HighDesertSage]

A pools almost a necessity there when that heat turns. One hot mother! The dogs lived in ours lol

Redding is ridiculous with the heat. My wife and I actually are both Chico State grads, which isn't much better with the heat. I spent quite a few years up there. I was on the 6.5 year plan, lol.

 

[MarvB]

Redding is ridiculous with the heat. My wife and I actually are both Chico State grads, which isn't much better with the heat. I spent quite a few years up there. I was on the 6.5 year plan, lol.

WILDCATS!! I was the Operations Mgr for Redding Electric, summers WERE NOT FUN but I called it a career after the Camp & Carr fires, then a record snowstorm, followed by a record hailstorm. Mother Nature is not fond of that place!

 

[shrapnel]

It is funny to see how things change, but a lot of it is perception. We can’t consider what was and what is without a little math.

The house shown selling for 2X in just 4 years does appear extreme, but the dollar has deflated more than the property has increased.

We built on a $400.00/month budget in 1980 and still live in the same house valued at nearly $500,000.00 today. I wasn’t earning a lot, and never made over $50,000.00/year by the time I retired over 3 years ago.

I was driving down North 7th in Bozeman and see a sign in front of Big O tires for $25.00/hour and Wendy’s for $18.00/hour. I was barely making that kind of money when I retired.

Help wanted signs are on almost every business door and they still can’t get help for $18.00-$25.00/hour.

There is money out there somewhere, the question is; where is it coming from?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Help wanted signs are on almost every business door and they still can’t get help for $18.00-$25.00/hour.

There is money out there somewhere, the question is; where is it coming from?

I think you have to be a little careful with that...

For instance I saw a $25 Walmart posting for a "Merchandiser" when I was in CO and then got thinking about it and did some digging. Actual post said $15-$25 with wage based on experience and then required 2 years of college .

So essentially they are looking for someone to work at the poverty line (that area) and have college and therefore likely college debt.

If you google the Wendy's job in Bozeman it says up to $18...

$18 was $2 an hour more than I made in my first 2 years out of college $16 (adjusted for inflation $20), with a degree, working in my trained field and in OG. So I'm not saying you're wrong... simply that I think it's a bit more complicated.

 

[Beanland_fan]

My grandparents have stories of 12-20% from the 70's I think. Crazy to imagine.

I recall my dad and grandpa saying the interest rate was 17% but the misery rate was 24%…. My grandpa was a farmer, voted D until Carter and then changed and voted for Reagan.

 

[MarvB]

My Roomate in college paid 22.9% APR on his balance for a used Honda Civic circa 1979. Course he also had no credit to speak of back then.

 

[Nick87]

When we bought our last zero turn, I told them I wanted to finance it through sheffield financial cuz I new I could get 0 down 0% or I would buy it outright. They insisted I use there finance company and would match it. I got the first bill and the amount seemed off by like 60% I called them 27% interest rate I nearly fell over. Needless to say they switched it back to sheffield.

 

[Bigjay73]

Between raising interest rates, gas prices possibly soaring, and other economic factors, is the dreaded "R" word right around the corner? Could put a damper on the housing market

 

[shrapnel]

I think you have to be a little careful with that...

For instance I saw a $25 Walmart posting for a "Merchandiser" when I was in CO and then got thinking about it and did some digging. Actual post said $15-$25 with wage based on experience and then required 2 years of college .

So essentially they are looking for someone to work at the poverty line (that area) and have college and therefore likely college debt.

If you google the Wendy's job in Bozeman it says up to $18...

$18 was $2 an hour more than I made in my first 2 years out of college $16 (adjusted for inflation $20), with a degree, working in my trained field and in OG. So I'm not saying you're wrong... simply that I think it's a bit more complicated.

The problem with that is the wage you can get at Wendy’s is almost twice minimum wage of $9.20/hour and Big O is well past double.

When I was a kid, minimum wage was maximum and there were 6 kids after one job.

This isn’t true today, regardless of semantics. You can earn more with less than any time in history and the focus is on what you can’t get over what you can get.

If you want to work, you can still be a millionaire, but if you don’t want to work you can still live like a millionaire.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

I’ve got a piece of property down there I’ve been trying to sell for quite some time (is finally in escrow). Those fires fubared a lot of home/prop values depending on location.

A lot of places around there are not insurable short of that state sponsored prison rape insurance that nobody wants. All the normal insurance companies have bowed out and many are raising rates 3-4 times to try and get those properties off their balance sheet. Even a house in Tierra Oaks, the greenest place around, may not be insurable because of the way insurance companies have drawn bubbles around fire areas

 

[HONEYBADGER]

Redding is ridiculous with the heat. My wife and I actually are both Chico State grads, which isn't much better with the heat. I spent quite a few years up there. I was on the 6.5 year plan, lol.

A fellow wildcat......man I miss that place sometimes.

 

[Nick87]

Between raising interest rates, gas prices possibly soaring, and other economic factors, is the dreaded "R" word right around the corner? Could put a damper on the housing market

Between raising interest rates, gas prices possibly soaring, and other economic factors, is the dreaded "R" word right around the corner? Could put a damper on the housing market

Could put a damper on several things only time will tell I guess

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The problem with that is the wage you can get at Wendy’s is almost twice minimum wage of $9.20/hour and Big O is well past double.

When I was a kid, minimum wage was maximum and there were 6 kids after one job.

This isn’t true today, regardless of semantics. You can earn more with less than any time in history and the focus is on what you can’t get over what you can get.

If you want to work, you can still be a millionaire, but if you don’t want to work you can still live like a millionaire.

These statements are not supported by the facts.

Minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation as defined by the CPI

1977 Min - $2.30
1977 Adjusted for inflation- $11.05
2022 Min - Federal $7.25, Montana $9.20

$25 today = $5.20 in 1977
------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to work, you can still be a millionaire.

Being a millionaire ain't what it use to be...
1977 - $1,000,000
2022 - $4,805,948.72

1977- $208,075.46
2022- $1,000,000
----------------------------------------------------------
Median Price of homes in 1977 ~ $47,750
Adjusted for inflation that would be $229,484.05
Median Price of homes in 2021 - $453,700

So in the last 45 years, inflation has far outstripped the minimum wage. In the last 45 years the cost of housing has outstripped inflation.

Point being in 1977 got you a lot more for your money, you had far more buying power as far as goods and services. Houses also cost far less in proportion to your wage.

Today if you're 16 and working your first job, even at Wendy's making $18/hr you are a lot further away from owning your own home than if you were at 16 in 1977 getting paid minimum wage.

$47,750/2.3 = 20760
$453,700/18= 25205

It would take you 1.21X times longer at more than double the federal min today than it would have taken you at min wage in 1977. For the federal min wage to have the same house buying power now as it did in 1977 it would need to be $22/hr, if you look at it through that lens then the $25/hr at Big O is only marginally over adjusted 1977 min wage.

---------------------------------------------------------

Further my point about requiring college, is the pretty ridiculous requirements in todays job market. No one in 1977 would say you needed 2 years of college to be a cashier at Walmart. The 'college' requirement in many jobs has gotten insane given the price change of college over the last 45 years.



---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not pointing finger at anyone, I'm not trying to be political I'm just pointing out what the data shows.

There is absolutely an argument to be made that the price of gadgets? have dropped at the same time so the average house is better equipped now than it was in 1977. Which is to say there is a lot of nuance to even the arguments I'm presenting.

 

[Dougfirtree]

These statements are not supported by the facts.

Minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation and defined by the CPI

1977 Min - $2.30
1977 Adjusted for inflation- $11.05
2022 Min - Federal $7.25, Montana $9.20

$25 today = $5.20 in 1977
------------------------------------------------------------

Being a millionaire ain't what it use to be...
1977 - $1,000,000
2022 - $4,805,948.72

1977- $208,075.46
2022- $1,000,000
----------------------------------------------------------
Median Price of homes in 1977 ~ $47,750
Adjusted for inflation that would be $229,484.05
Median Price of homes in 2021 - $453,700

So in the last 45 years, inflation has far outstripped the minimum wage. In the last 45 years the cost of housing has outstripped inflation.

Point being in 1977 got you a lot more for your money, you had far more buying power as far as goods and services. Houses also cost far less in proportion to your wage.

Today if you're 16 and working your first job, even at Wendy's making $18/hr you are a lot further away from owning your own home than if you were at 16 in 1977 getting paid minimum wage.

$47,750/2.3 = 20760
$453,700/18= 25205

It would take you 1.21X times longer a more than double the federal min today than it would have taken you at min wage in 1977.

---------------------------------------------------------

Further my point about requiring college, is the pretty ridiculous requirements in todays job market. No one in 1977 would say you needed 2 years of college to be a cashier at Walmart. The 'college' requirement in many jobs has gotten insane given the price change of college over the last 45 years.

View attachment 214432

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not pointing finger at any, I'm not trying to be political I'm just pointing out what the data shows.

There is absolutely an argument to be made that the price of gadgets? have dropped at the same time so the average house is better equipped now than it was in 1977. Which is to say there is a lot of nuance to even the arguments I'm presenting.

You should just print this post into little pamphlets. I feel like we'd all hand out a couple each month in the course of our conversations with others.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

There is money out there somewhere, the question is; where is it coming from?

 

[MarvB]

A fellow wildcat......man I miss that place sometimes.

Nah you just miss Madison Bear Gardens

 

[MarvB]

A lot of places around there are not insurable short of that state sponsored prison rape insurance that nobody wants. All the normal insurance companies have bowed out and many are raising rates 3-4 times to try and get those properties off their balance sheet. Even a house in Tierra Oaks, the greenest place around, may not be insurable because of the way insurance companies have drawn bubbles around fire areas

Yup, if you can’t insure a home on a golf purse

 

[shrapnel]

These statements are not supported by the facts.

Minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation as defined by the CPI

1977 Min - $2.30
1977 Adjusted for inflation- $11.05
2022 Min - Federal $7.25, Montana $9.20

$25 today = $5.20 in 1977
------------------------------------------------------------

Being a millionaire ain't what it use to be...
1977 - $1,000,000
2022 - $4,805,948.72

1977- $208,075.46
2022- $1,000,000
----------------------------------------------------------
Median Price of homes in 1977 ~ $47,750
Adjusted for inflation that would be $229,484.05
Median Price of homes in 2021 - $453,700

So in the last 45 years, inflation has far outstripped the minimum wage. In the last 45 years the cost of housing has outstripped inflation.

Point being in 1977 got you a lot more for your money, you had far more buying power as far as goods and services. Houses also cost far less in proportion to your wage.

Today if you're 16 and working your first job, even at Wendy's making $18/hr you are a lot further away from owning your own home than if you were at 16 in 1977 getting paid minimum wage.

$47,750/2.3 = 20760
$453,700/18= 25205

It would take you 1.21X times longer at more than double the federal min today than it would have taken you at min wage in 1977. For the federal min wage to have the same house buying power now as it did in 1977 it would need to be $22/hr, if you look at it through that lens then the $25/hr at Big O is only marginally over adjusted 1977 min wage.

---------------------------------------------------------

Further my point about requiring college, is the pretty ridiculous requirements in todays job market. No one in 1977 would say you needed 2 years of college to be a cashier at Walmart. The 'college' requirement in many jobs has gotten insane given the price change of college over the last 45 years.

View attachment 214432

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not pointing finger at any, I'm not trying to be political I'm just pointing out what the data shows.

There is absolutely an argument to be made that the price of gadgets? have dropped at the same time so the average house is better equipped now than it was in 1977. Which is to say there is a lot of nuance to even the arguments I'm presenting.

Actually, you can make any point you want to be right, but a color television set cost around $550.00 in the early 70’s, it took a library to hold the computer that you can put in your pocket and do 1000’s of more computations and the HP 3000 cost $93,000.00 in 1972.

A car from the 60’s would be worn out before you would even change spark plugs in a new car.

I could post graphs and figures, but the truth is, you have never been able to buy more with less than we see today.

No arguing that there are extremes in all manners of life in America, but you can be what you want and buy what you want if you work for it.

My mother was a professor at the University and during the Reagan administration, she was afraid of Reaganomics because the press vilified him as a thief of her hard earned dollars, when his budget was built on decreasing the cost of growth vs taking money she had already earned. I remember how she worried about minimum wage not being enough to support a family during the Reagan years and how Democrats were pushing to raise the minimum wage to provide a better standard of living for the unprepared workforce.

When I asked her how she prepared herself for teaching at a university compared to unskilled labor at minimum wage, she was puzzled and didn’t note the difference in wages is earned and not given.

Never has America been so affluent. Neighborhoods are lined with cars, trucks, boats and trailers. When I was a kid, we went to a rented locker to store our beef. There wasn’t a single boat, trailer or recreational vehicle within 10 blocks of where we lived and we were not poor.

Paying $1,000,000.00 for a house is outrageous, but what I paid for my first house was $21,000,00 and it was not much more than shelter and I was happy to have it.

Too many people want to start out on the top and not work their way there. There is still lots of opportunities in America, I think too many people want too much, too soon.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Actually, you can make any point you want to be right, but a color television set cost around $550.00 in the early 70’s, it took a library to hold the computer that you can put in your pocket and do 1000’s of more computations and the HP 3000 cost $93,000.00 in 1972.

A car from the 60’s would be worn out before you would even change spark plugs in a new car.

I could post graphs and figures, but the truth is, you have never been able to buy more with less than we see today.

No arguing that there are extremes in all manners of life in America, but you can be what you want and buy what you want if you work for it.

My mother was a professor at the University and during the Reagan administration, she was afraid of Reaganomics because the press vilified him as a thief of her hard earned dollars, when his budget was built on decreasing the cost of growth vs taking money she had already earned. I remember how she worried about minimum wage not being enough to support a family during the Reagan years and how Democrats were pushing to raise the minimum wage to provide a better standard of living for the unprepared workforce.

When I asked her how she prepared herself for teaching at a university compared to unskilled labor at minimum wage, she was puzzled and didn’t note the difference in wages is earned and not given.

Never has America been so affluent. Neighborhoods are lined with cars, trucks, boats and trailers. When I was a kid, we went to a rented locker to store our beef. There wasn’t a single boat, trailer or recreational vehicle within 10 blocks of where we lived and we were not poor.

Paying $1,000,000.00 for a house is outrageous, but what I paid for my first house was $21,000,00 and it was not much more than shelter and I was happy to have it.

Too many people want to start out on the top and not work their way there. There is still lots of opportunities in America, I think too many people want too much, too soon.

I’m not sure I agree that because the price of consumer electronics has decreased that out weighs the increase in cost relative to earnings of homes and milk?

But MT elk tags are waaaaaay cheaper so I guess you got that going for you

 

[406dn]

No arguing that there are extremes in all manners of life in America, but you can be what you want and buy what you want if you work for it.

If this is meant objectively, as written, it is patently false.

For instance, I WANTED to be a major league baseball player. I worked at it from a young age. I was pretty good also. BUT, at the end, I lacked the necessary talent to make it to that level.

There are endless numbers of examples. I suspect there are a large number of people working their plan B, C or some less hoped for path in life.

I know that in the early 70's, while living at home, I paid for my college education without any debt. I bought a car and hunted often. All of it paid for with a part time job at a grocery store. There is not a kid alive that can pull that off as easily as I did.