BuzzH
Well-known member
And cost prohibitive to implement, to end up not solving the problem, which, IMO there is no solution to.Some of these ideas are way too complicated.
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And cost prohibitive to implement, to end up not solving the problem, which, IMO there is no solution to.Some of these ideas are way too complicated.
I'm on board with losing points for any antlered or either sex tag but I don't agree at all for forcing people to apply for a tag. I personally like the people just applying for points for a couple reasons:Agreed, but I’m agreement with wllm that these three things would really help:
1. Must apply for draw to earn a point.
2. No refunds for drawn tags.
3. All tags reset points to zero (certain antlerless/doe tags exempt).
I see what you're saying, there's definitely a give and take. You're proposal above may not help draw odds as well as others proposals, but it does maintain a large funding stream that, like you say, doesn't impact the resource.I'm on board with losing points for any antlered or either sex tag but I don't agree at all for forcing people to apply for a tag. I personally like the people just applying for points for a couple reasons:
1. They don't compete with me in the draw.
2. They provide revenue without extracting from the resource. Revenue that would be lost if they had to apply. If managing the resource is a priority, it needs to be funded an revenue has to be a priority.
I also don't agree with no refunds for drawn tags due to some specific reasons. Pretty tough to successfully push for and get legislation passed to reserve tags for medical reasons in Wyoming then advocate against that very policy.
I like the Wyoming legislation and it works well, Randy's Uncle Larry was able to utilize it and some others I've heard from.
I damn near had to use it myself for my moose permit this year...sucks to draw a tag and have a medical reason keeping you from hunting it.
The way the Wyoming draw works, everybody that applies is considered in both the preference and random draws.@BuzzH would forcing people to apply for a license in say WY help with point creep in the fact that they have a random draw? This would would potentially help "eliminate" lower point holders from the pool? Or are the # of tags in the random draw so little it would have little to no affect?
Also I agree the biggest thing should be
1) No point averaging.
2) If you get license you lose your points no matter the license.
3) if it's a license issued bc of nuisance animals they don't require any points and it's a 100% random draw.
Thanks that all makes sense! Making people apply for a license or point probably makes more sense in CO where someone can apply for a point and still pick up an OTC tag.The way the Wyoming draw works, everybody that applies is considered in both the preference and random draws.
So, IMO, by forcing all applicants to apply for a permit, those that really don't want to draw will put in for say, a unit 100 bull elk tag.
The random odds for those tags, although really bad now, will be really, really, really bad if you have to apply to gain a point. Also, lets say someone that has applied for that area simply because the odds are really bad (may or may not know anything about that area) draws the tag. They probably won't put much effort into when someone that actually wanted the tag, would have. IMO, stealing an opportunity from someone that really wants that tag.
Plus, there could also be ways around that too...apply for a tag that takes max points and issues no random tags.
I think there could be some slight decrease in point creep in the mid-tier units by forcing people to actually apply, but the lower and upper tiers wouldn't see much, if any, decrease in creep.
Thanks that all makes sense! Making people apply for a license or point probably makes more sense in CO where someone can apply for a point and still pick up an OTC tag.
I can agree with you on this. Forcing people to apply for a hunt code is not going to solve anything. Likely lower the state revenue from the process, increase draw odds with only very tiny very marginal decrease in point creepThe way the Wyoming draw works, everybody that applies is considered in both the preference and random draws.
So, IMO, by forcing all applicants to apply for a permit, those that really don't want to draw will put in for say, a unit 100 bull elk tag.
The random odds for those tags, although really bad now, will be really, really, really bad if you have to apply to gain a point. Also, lets say someone that has applied for that area simply because the odds are really bad (may or may not know anything about that area) draws the tag. They probably won't put much effort into when someone that actually wanted the tag, would have. IMO, stealing an opportunity from someone that really wants that tag.
Plus, there could also be ways around that too...apply for a tag that takes max points and issues no random tags.
I think there could be some slight decrease in point creep in the mid-tier units by forcing people to actually apply, but the lower and upper tiers wouldn't see much, if any, decrease in creep.
One consistent thing in these discussions are the stupid ideas to "fix" the problems.
Selling points or making them transferable is the dumbest idea I've ever heard.
Apply for a point, get a cow tag as a second choice and then pick up a 16 point bull tag on the reissue list...oh and get their kid a sheep tag.Thanks that all makes sense! Making people apply for a license or point probably makes more sense in CO where someone can apply for a point and still pick up an OTC tag.
there are so many things wrong with how CO does things we should probably ignore them for this discussion. ironically however is the fact that their messed up system results in some of the best 1-5 preference point hunts in the west and those hunts aren't impacted much by point creep. go figureApply for a point, get a cow tag as a second choice and then pick up a 16 point bull tag on the reissue list...oh and get their kid a sheep tag.
Or at least Front the full tag fee for points. The issue with not being able to buy points is you just force your folks to put in to the hardest to draw hunts and crowd that pool. Buying points at a discount keeps that competition among folks who really want it.I do think that if you made folks apply for a hunt, that you completely eliminated refunds (yes even for death), and that every tag zero'd your points that we'd have a lot less folks participating.
I could get behind this. I've drawn 3 really good elk tags in 23 years of applying being the "random tag" 2 of those 3 were in point States.keep at least 50% of the tags outside the point scheme and have them as random. It dilutes the benefits of the point scheme of fewer tags are subject of that point system.
It's already mathematically impossible for new folks to draw those units so I don't see that as an issue. If someone wants to completely forgo hunting for decades to have a chance at a premium unit 1 time I think that's fine.Or at least Front the full tag fee for points. The issue with not being able to buy points is you just force your folks to put in to the hardest to draw hunts and crowd that pool. Buying points at a discount keeps that competition among folks who really want it.
I think there should always be a portion of the tags that are available in a random draw no matter the point scheme.It's already mathematically impossible for new folks to draw those units so I don't see that as an issue. If someone wants to completely forgo hunting for decades to have a chance at a premium unit 1 time I think that's fine.
There are like 200 premium tags in CO a year and 200,000 hunters...
If your 55 with 30 points, do you hold out or go hunting.
Also... incredibly unpopular idea, all premium tags must be applied for in person with a paper app at the DNR headquarters.
What about PP Thunderdome? Two men enter, each with PP's. One man leaves with all the PP's.Selling points or making them transferable is the dumbest idea I've ever heard.
There was a time I agreed with this, but given the way Pronghorn pops are going it might be worth doing. With abundant, relatively easy to obtain doe tags, maybe not so much.About as dumb as losing points for obtaining a doe pronghorn tag.
Would think more effective to drop quotas and raise pricesThere was a time I agreed with this, but given the way Pronghorn pops are going it might be worth doing. With abundant, relatively easy to obtain doe tags, maybe not so much.