Idaho Wilderness facts

[JoseCuervo]

Buzz and 1-Pointer,

The best opportunity for Wilderness for lowlands/grass lands in Idaho is the Owyhee Canyonlands. Clinton considered the executive order route, kind of like Escalante, but he backed away.

This area is the extreme SW corner of Idaho, home to a Desert Sheep population, some incredible Mule Deer (many worthy of magazine covers), and a few HUGE elk. It also has Sage Grouse. Some incredible rivers.

On the other side it has Welfare Ranchers, ATV trails, and Mining activitiy. (No timber to speak of).

Right now, Sen Crapo has commissioned a working group with the County Commissioners to try and work out a solution. The membership was supposed to represent all parties, but they specifically excluded Western Watersheds and they are letting hunters be represented by the Blue Ribbon Coalition.

My guess is they are doomed before they started, but they now have been going more than 1 year, and still claim to be making progress. But, if you ask for their minutes, agendas, or meeting notices, they seem to always lose the request....

er

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Are you afraid that groups working toward more wilderness designations are 'crying wolf' (pun intended) too often?"
Yes!!!! and crying grizzle bear,lynk's,spotted owl & whatever else they can think of .LOL


"Though I can see your point, I think it may be better to designate as much wilderness as possible while it is possible. "

There you go 1Pointer,You hit the nail on the head. That is the thing I will work against.
Protection can be done without sever restriction's.
Let's leave the ATV out of it for right now,I still own a truck and there are many place's that are open now ,that I feel should be left open.
Elkgunner made a good point (The Owyhee's) .
While Im for protection of the area I hope the enviro's lose there ass on much of what they are asking for.
While Buzz think's the enviro's shouldn't of compromized on the wilderness act,I feel the same way about the other side.
I will vote against all the wilderness bill's for the fact that 1Pointer stated above---------These people don't know when to leave well enough alone.
Elkgunner,I have been into the wildeness and I also use alot of the "study area"
I know if it gets put into wilderness designation ,not many people will be able to even use it .
It also goes against what Ithaca said about we can't make more wilderness !!!!
Some of these Study areas have roads now and DO NOT come under the defenation of wilderness ,same thing for parts of the Owyhee's,so I guess that mean's they are MAKING more!!!!
I have no problem protecting the roadless areas we have,or placing restrictions on area's.
Elkgunner made a good point on who uses wilderness area's or wilderness study areas.
I wonder how many of these environmental group's have used much of what they now think they need to (protect).
I do agree with alot of what Elkgunner & Buzz post's,just not to the degree of what they are asking for.
Compromise should go both way's,if the enviro's wont budge,I don't think the other side should either,let it sit in limbo ,till we get another Clition or Gore in the whitehouse then we can go another round .

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Compromise should go both way's,if the enviro's wont budge,I don't think the other side should either,let it sit in limbo ,till we get another Clition or Gore in the whitehouse then we can go another round . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is very well said Deb...
Great statement..

 

[BuzzH]

MD4ME, just a couple questions for you:

1. Do you have any idea what the requirements are for wilderness designation, ever read the Wilderness act or the RARE studies?

2. How much of the total land mass is "locked up" by wilderness?

3. How much in "enough" wilderness...and who should decide that?

4. How much total land mass is open for development, extractive industries, etc?

Answer those questions, then go back and re-read your post.

We have too much wilderness???

HMMMMM???

 

[Ithaca 37]

Buzz, You KNOW she can't and will not answer those questions!

1. She has no idea.

2. She has no idea.

3. Too hard for her.

4. No idea.

All of those would questions require research and thought.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Did we also know that what the "Legal terms for wilderness and the little things they do in some of the forest service jurisdictions are actually pretty close to one and the same?
Whether it is actually designated as wilderness or not, their actions speak louder than words, and I do know you have seen it also, even if you don't or won't admit it. So what difference does it really make except in semantics on a "true" or legal definition or not...

 

[Ten Bears]

Sounds like the typical MD4M bashing session, same old bashers ganging up on someone trying to voice a "common" arguement.

Turkey season opened today, think I'll go pike fishing.

 

[Lostagain]

Well, we see the extremes right here on HT. No compromise at all from either side, so the rest of us are just want to slam their heads together or throw them out of the discussion about it and use our own ideas to settle it all,,,,, but wow then you extremes would really scream.
I can see the points on both sides, but the bickering and rhetoric is getting old and tiresome. Maybe that's the idea, after the middle is fed up and goes away, the extremes think "they" will get their way.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-15-2003 10:45: Message edited by: Lostagain ]</font>

 

[RockyDog]

Interesting how throwing on a hundred dollar backpack and hunting wilderness is "ONLY FOR THE RICH" while financing a $5K to $10K FATBOY MACHINE is for the average joe.

MuleDeer4Me, i cant stand you and your every place should be open to gearheads attittude. Where did you move to Idaho from, im guessing some redneck nascar neighborhood in the south.

Thank god some areas are left to get away from the internal combustion FATBOY MACHINE.

 

[Dick Reece]

Dang boys,I'm not believing this, this is America, where every man is entitled to his opinion,and has the right to express it without harassment!!

NEVER FORGET!

When you start running a man down for expressing his opinion,instead of just debating his opinion, you are taking a bit of integrity away from the people who fought and died for this country, each time you do it.

NEVER FORGET!

 

[1_pointer]

MD, how does one assure protection that is better than what is on other public lands while allowing the same uses? I don't see it. Can you garantee that the Owyhee's will be in as good shape in 100yrs if managed like the surrounding lands instead of being in Wilderness?

Two pieces of like land, managed the same will end up in the some condition given time.

Elkgunner, I think there is something to the 'mystique' of wilderness. For some (you) it is a draw to get you there to see things not available elsewhere and to others it is scary. I'm a flatlander who just moved here and did have some reservations about going into wilderness, but the time I've now spent there is GREAT!

 

[BigHornyRam]

Pointer,

Utah is a good example of why we shouldn't turn every piece of roadless land into wilderness, expecially without consulting the people who live their first. Pisses a lot of people off and in the long run only hurts the cause you are trying to promote. You really should get out in the real world and find out what main stream America thinks. Most people will choose eating over wilderness hands down. Words of wisdom from a realist, not an idealist.

Paul

 

[Dick Reece]

Hi Paul,

If "progress" continues in it's current form,our great grandchildren will no longer live in the "real" world, but instead will reside in the manmade one you erroneously call "real".

The "real" world is in fact,the wilderness,and most of it is not untouched.

 

[RockyDog]

Good point Paul C, if we dont build roads into all those areas were all gonna starve.

We might not even be able to hold up our 30% obesity rate as a country.

 

[BigHornyRam]

P. C.,

I choose not to have children, so I have helped out a little to solve the real problem. Too many humans on this rock. Sooner or later Mother Nature will do some culling of the herd and there is little you or I can do about it. In the mean time there is a lot of wilderness out here still, just doesn't have an official title of Wilderness. If you really want to conserve wilderness, just think a little about what and how much you consume. If everyone makes a concious effort to do this there may be some hope for the future. Again just being a realist.

Paul

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-16-2003 09:14: Message edited by: Paul C ]</font>

 

[Dick Reece]

Good points Paul. I wish there weren't so many laws about where and when you can ride a horse,etc.We could all do with a heavy dose of going back to the old ways.I too make efforts to conserve,wearing sweaters in the house,etc.

I didn't neccessarily choose to have a child,it just happened,but I'm glad.I know I would have chosen too anyway. Anyhow,I think we've all made some valid points,and most all posters are for the wilderness, some are just not for making more,and some are against making it walk or horseride in only.

Myself,I think like 1 pointer,let's make as much of it wilderness as we can now,in order to protect it while we still have it.

I don't own a 4 wheeler,and I never will.Not after I've seen what's happened to this state because of them,not to mention the deaths I've seen come through the ER asa result of them.I think they should be outlawed.Those that want to tek into wilderness should use horses and mules.Just my 2 cents,nothing against the people who own and use 4 wheelers.

 

[1_pointer]

Paul- I agree that the local people as well as those abroad should be consulted as to the designation of wilderness. You're right in certain areas, this has caused more contention than it's worth. My views are rapidly changing as I learn more about the issues behind the issues.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Too many humans on this rock. Sooner or later Mother Nature will do some culling of the herd and there is little you or I can do about it. In the mean time there is a lot of wilderness out here still, just doesn't have an official title of Wilderness. If you really want to conserve wilderness, just think a little about what and how much you consume. If everyone makes a concious effort to do this there may be some hope for the future. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with these statements wholeheartedly! The less strain put on nat. resources because of less demand for them will make the current wilderness areas seem larger and aid in improving the non-wilderness areas.

I'll be in the real world in May, so I can pursue a different 'education'. I'm only 24 so I feel I lots of time to learn and there's a lot I need to learn. Actually, that starts not too far from you in Deer Lodge with a field course.

 

[Lostagain]

1== you ought to say you're going to Powell county, .....going to DeerLodge sounds like you're going to the pen. looking at the ARCO reclam stuff? there's plenty of that around there.

 

[ELKCHSR]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Myself,I think like 1 pointer,let's make as much of it wilderness as we can now,in order to protect it while we still have it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is comming from some one that wants to help dictate from a far off place, this is the stuff that needs to start in your own back yard...

 

[BigHornyRam]

Rocky Dog,

A present example would be our communist pals in North Korea. A recent tough winter had many of them eating the bark off trees in order to survive. Think that these people give much thought to wilderness and the enviroment? Are you naive enough to think that this could never happen to us? With as many fat and lazy Americans that's only idea of food procurment as a trip to Mac and Don's, this day could come sooner than later.

Paul