Idaho Second Deer Tag - 2016/2017 winter implications

[idelkslayer]

From IDFG website:

Q. How will this affect game populations?

A: There will likely be no effects, or minor ones. In 2015, second deer tags accounted for about 3.5 percent of the statewide deer harvest, and second elk tags accounted for about 1.4 percent of the statewide elk harvest. There were over 168,000 deer and 101,000 elk tags sold in Idaho in 2015.

Because second tags are tags are already allocated for nonresident hunters, harvest is already accounted for, and there is not expected to be any negative impacts from harvest by second tag holders. In areas where populations or harvest rates fall below Fish and Game’s objectives, hunting rules are adjusted by limiting hunting opportunity, shortening seasons, converting to controlled hunts, or limiting tags available in some areas. These restrictions would also apply to hunters using second tags.

 

[Steelhead]

Please show me data that supports the numbers of mature bucks taken on these second tags.
Also how many residents are buying the second tags

In general terms you'd have to agree that they go to more efficient hunters, for any number of reasons. Namely the fact that they DON'T sell out...meaning that you can go huntin, see a buncha bucks, shoot one, go buy another tag, shoot another. As I mentioned we were 75% on second tags last year...and we suck.

 

[BrianID]

300stw,

I don't have data to support the number of mature bucks taken with second tags. As far as I know the F&G hasn't shared that with the public. I don't even know if the the F&G routinely tracks the impact of the 2nd tag.
However, I do know of a number of mature bucks that are killed with the second tag. That doesn't account for the the bucks killed and tagged with the 1st tag that the hunter would have passed on if they didn't have the option of purchasing a 2nd tag. The 2nd tag disproportionately gives the more effective hunters extra opportunity to kill more mature bucks. I don't have any data to back it up but I believe 90% of the mature bucks are killed by only 10% of the hunters. Most of the hunters in Idaho are not a significant threat to mature bucks in general season units. Other hunters "get lucky" and kill a mature buck on a general season unit almost every year. Giving a second tag to guys who routinely kill mature bucks on Idaho's general season units is a terrible management plan in my opinion.
My argument is that there is too much hunting pressure on mature bucks in Idaho's general season units. The 2nd tag increases the hunting pressure on mature bucks in the general season units and therefore should be eliminated. That is just my opinion. If you believe there are enough mature bucks in the general season units and the 2nd tag doesn't have a significant impact, then you are entitled to your opinion.
I also believe general season units shouldn't have November controlled hunts because these late hunts put too much pressure on mature bucks. I would rather see a general season that is longer and earlier in the fall with no late hunts and no 2nd tags. That is just my opinion though.

 

[ida homer]

I also believe general season units shouldn't have November controlled hunts because these late hunts put too much pressure on mature bucks. I would rather see a general season that is longer and earlier in the fall with no late hunts and no 2nd tags. That is just my opinion though.

I think I could be onboard with an Oct 1st - 31st season in some units. Obviously unit 39 gets hunted from August 15th - November 30th, kind of excessive. Especially when recovering from a year like this.

I'm also onboard with 2nd tags being whitetail only. Lots of whitetails in the north central part of the state.

 

[300stw]

i understand your opinions, i just want some facts, not the I believe type scenarios,,,,, i would like to know how many residents buy the 2nd tag, how many are succesful, and the quality of the deer taken on that tag,,

if 200 extra mature bucks are taken thru out idaho is that a significant impact? if 1000 mature bucks are taken on the 2nd tag is that significant?

i dont believe longer seasons are the answer,,,, if we want to be sincere about helping out the resource, lets go to to pick your weapon, 2 week season, in any general unit, no doe hunts at all, i have no problem getting rid of the 2nd tag if were gonna be serious about management as a whole,,,,

what are resident hunters numbers doing, are there 20 percent more hunters than 5 years ago-10 years ago, or less hunters, trends for numbers of hunters must be factored in these decisions, if resident hunter numbers doubled in the next couple years, where would that take us in the management issues, all mule deer draw only as in other states,,,, i do feel that to protect the resource, there must be some hard decisions made in the near future,

when i lived in idaho i bought an extra tag every year no matter how poor i was, i always made both tags count on good bucks, with 20 days or so to be in the field every year ,i could of taken a handful of mature bucks every year,,

as a nonresident i continue to buy an elk and deer tag every year, and continue to harvest quality deer, not as easy as it once was, also not as hard as it has been in the past,

but realistically, mule deer hunting throughout the west on public land, most likely will become more limited in the coming years if we want deer for our grandkids,,,,

 

[BrianID]

300stw,
The F&G doesn't collect solid data on the second tags in relation to mature bucks. The harvest report only counts the number of points on a buck's antlers. There is a big difference between a 2 1/2 year old 4 point and a mature 5 1/2 year old mule deer buck. I don't have any numbers to back it up but I would be surprised if mature muley bucks (5 1/2 + year old) make up more than 10% of the mule deer harvest in general season units. I would guess less than 5% of the muley bucks killed are 5 1/2+ years old in most general season units. Most of the hunters are not really a threat to these older bucks. The best way to increase the number of mature bucks in general season units is to restrict those that are killing them (November controlled hunts and those that routinely kill mature bucks with general season tags).
Fortunately some of the better mule deer hunters in Idaho self regulate. I know some very good mule deer hunters that hunt hard and eat their tag year after year because they are holding out for a special buck. However, there are some that buy two tags every year and put significant extra pressure on mature bucks.
If only 3.5% of the deer killed in 2015 were on second tags it may not seem like a lot but lets say half of that 3.5% were mature bucks. If 7% of the bucks killed on general season tags were mature bucks that would mean that 25% of the mature bucks killed on general season units were killed using a second tag. This also doesn't account for all the bucks killed with their 1st tag that they would have passed on if they had no option at a second tag. These are just hypothetical numbers but it shows an example of how these second tags could significantly increase the pressure on mature bucks. In reality it may only be 10% or possibly less of mature bucks killed during general season are a result of the 2nd tag. This is still too many in my opinion.
Switching Idaho to draw only like Utah or Colorado would be a very effective way to increase the number of mature bucks but I would hate to see that happen. I would rather get ride of the November controlled hunts and make hunters that kill a buck one year sit out the next year. For example, if you shot a mule deer in 2016 resulted in you not getting to hunt deer in 2017. Restricting those who are putting the most pressure on the deer would make a huge difference in the number of bucks surviving in general season units. Letting people hunt every year that rarely kill a deer has very little impact on the mule deer population. I just don't think there are enough mature muley bucks in Idaho to let guys kill one every year, let alone 2 every year.