I was just wondering....

[quail hunter]

So I wonder if the people that are opposed to cattle grazing on public land when they are about to go across a ranchers land to access public land do they go to the rancher and tell him what they think of grazing and how his cows are destroying the creek banks etc?
When the anti loggers are sitting in there home that has wood in it somewhere that came from public land is that o.k. cause you wanted it?
When your chomping down on that steak how do you know it came from private grazing? or is that o.k. cause you wanted it?
So is it o.k. to support the very things that your trying to curtail?
So its o.k. because you already have yours and it won't cause you any hardships if it all ceases?
Just wondering......

 

[Ten Bears]

Good point(s) QH. Probably to deep or personal for some around here though.

Now their gonna tell you that you're too middle of the road.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Quail, I hunt public land and don't have to ask anyone for access to it. I do sometimes hunt private land and those landowners feel about the same as I do about welfare ranchers being subsidized and destroying our land.

My house is about 50 years old so I don't know where the wood came from and I don't care. I never said I want to stop all logging---I just want the timber companies to obey the law.

When I rarely eat beef I buy it from a rancher who raises his own grass fed beef on his won land. Usually I eat venison or elk.

How do you feel about welfare ranchers destroying quail habitat on public land? Maybe you should take a look at this and wake up:

"The Western Gamebird Alliance was founded by a group of dedicated quail hunters concerned about the fate of quail habitat in Arizona. As is the case in most of the West, deterioration of upland bird habitat is the result of poor range management on public land...."

http://www.gamebird-alliance.org/whatis.html

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-11-2003 10:12: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[quail hunter]

O.k. I read the whole game alliance deal.
Now mostly where I quail hunt there are cattle grazing or have been.
I don't know if its private land or public as checker boarded as land ownerships go it could be both.
When I hunt where there has'nt been any cattle for a long time its usually a harder hunt for me and my dogs as the grass and weeds are so thick its hard to get thru.

The dogs look like kangaroos springing thru that stuff and your just waiting to step on a rattlesnake but the country is more appealing to look at.
I've found quail in both areas in about the same amount maybe more in the cattle areas as they have water available for there cows.
I won't be going along with any group trying to boot ranchers.
If they are successful then the rancher will sell to a developer his private lands which are checkerboarded thruout public lands and the homes will come.
Actually the best quail habitat in this whole state are the retirement communitys where they can thrive by being fed daily,water everywhere and no hunting allowed.
So I'll just continue to sleep and hunt quail
on the shared lands until they are all consumed by homeowners then I'll find something else to do!
Your rancher friends you say feel the same way, why would'nt they?
heck they would have the whole market wrapped up,they would stand to make alot of money getting rid of the competition,but I suppose that never enters their minds.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-11-2003 11:00: Message edited by: quail hunter ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

Quail, Here's a little more info for ya!

"MYTH

It's Either Ranching or Subdivisions

TRUTH

Livestock advocates try to silence critics by saying that reducing or eliminating livestock from public lands will lead to subdivisions. Yet, supporting the livestock industry-even increasing its subsidies-will not stop the parceling out of ranchland into housing tracts....."

http://www.publiclandsranching.org/htmlres/wr_myth_subdivisions.htm

 

[MarlandS]

Why yeah, that's a scare tactic, think about it, even here where crop farming brings in more in one year that ranching does in ten on a per acre basis land is still being gobbled up by developers because they can make even more money selling it for houses. Farmland= $3,000 an acre . Subdivision lot= somewhere above $100,000 an acre. It ain't about welfare ranching there, it's about greed.

 

[BuzzH]

Quailhunter, a lot of people arent as against public lands ranching as they are against improper and damaging practices by welfare ranchers. Same with logging, nothing wrong with it, as long as its done within the law and in a manner that doesnt degrade water quality, wildlife habitat, etc.

What I'm against is welfare ranchers, and the managers that administer BLM lands, not doing anything to improve or help the problem. Remember, 60% of BLM lands are in poor condition because of grazing. To top it off, I have to subsidize that kind of abuse to the land so welfare ranchers can keep hammering the land and "preserve" their way of life. Meanwhile, my riparian areas, my wildlife, my water quality, etc. all have to suffer because of poor practices by welfare ranchers, its ridiculous.

What they do on their land, I couldnt care less, raise 6 million cattle, whatever. Just dont trash my federal lands, expect me to pay for it, and then be happy about it.

 

[cjcj]

land developer`s destroy more wildlife habitat than welfare rancher`s and yes [quail hunter] there are more quail in adult resort communities [sun city] where you can`t hunt them, than there are anywhere else. WHY don`t the enviro`s attack big land developer`s?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Quail, You'd be against public land ranching too, if you understood the issue. Keep reading up on it!

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.publiclandsranching.org/htmlres/wr_welfareranching.htm

http://www.publiclandsranching.org/

http://www.westernwatersheds.org/

 

[Muledeer4me]

"I won't be going along with any group trying to boot ranchers.
If they are successful then the rancher will sell to a developer his private lands which are checkerboarded thruout public lands and the homes will come."

Quail,right on.
I had one of our own fish & game commisioners tell me that people should be carefull what they wish for because if they get there way and oust the rancher ,then that land will go the way of the subdivision or other big landowneds that wont allow access.
We all understand they practice's can be improved,we all understand that Ithaca and his Western Watershed Project (Jon Marvel) doesnt what improvment or to work with any of the rancher's He aaaaand Ithaca have the same HATE driven agenda and that is to get the rancher OUT anyway they can.
What I find funny is that Ithaca with his hit em hard Jon Marvel stance has done nothing to change many minds on here ,what he has done is run others off because they are sick of seeing his bull shit one sided green agenda.

The only substance to Ithaca is his BAN IT All rancher hating agenda,if he gave that up there would be nothing left to work with.
.

You dont get people on your side by being a big prick ,and that is what Marvel & Ithaca's claim to fame is all about.

Neither Marvel , Ithaca or many of the greenie site he give's links to have the desire to allow change's put into pratice.

Marvel's own site tell you that.
Ithaca's own post's lead us right to the radical greenie group's ,and we are to jump on his band wagon LOL Dont think so.

http://www.compassionatespirit.com/index.htm

Go read through some of this crap he post links to and decide for yourself's if this is the type of crapola you want to follow.

 

[Ithaca 37]

MD4M, With your hate filled posts you make Marvel look real moderate!

 

[danr55]

Deb, I don't know who's site that was you put up, but the guy who wrote that dribble is about as ambiguous as they come. He is attempting to draw attention to conditions the HE percieves without substantiating any of the statements he throughs out as fact.

Case in point.... He states that 15% of the world's population (basically the US) is using 66% of the world's economic output". Of course they do, they generate almost 20% of the GNP for the planet. That leave 5% of the economic output of the US that is donated to someone else... What other country can make such a claim?? and why should that be a seed for terrorism?

This clown professes the ancient and may I use the term appropriately, Marxist "People's Utopia" principle. Everyone will be happy when everyone is the same. That will solve terrorism.. Not a fu#$ing chance. Terrorists are going to be terrorists regardless of whether they are Palestinian, German, American, or Martian. I find this persons writing idealistic and sophmorish..

 

[MarlandS]

Dan, MD keeps posting that trying to prove that Ithaca is a radical greenie, but it's hard to take an admitted liar seriously especially when she can never back up subsequent claims.

I lost all respect for her over that incident. and it's the main reason I don't respond to her even when I agree with what she's saying.

 

[danr55]

Mars, I won't begin to make an assessment of anyones credibility based on what they put up here. There are always lots of emotions involved. As to the Ithica/MD4ME controversy, well, that's between them. I kind take all of that with a grain of salt. And if web lies are a bad thing, well, there aren't many of us that are innocent. If they are posted with malicious intent is something again.....

The guy that put up the web site that Deb posted is what my observations were made on. Anyone who is a proponent of this guys philosophy, needs a reality check and an education in the nature of the animal MAN. It reads like something out to the mid 60's.

 

[MarlandS]

Dan, We all make assessments as to peoples' or organizations credibility based on what gets put on the web, you did it yourself with your assessment of the article and then assessed what mindset the author has did you not? where's the difference?

Here on the 'net that's all we really have to go by isn't it, what people write?

Reminds me of a guy who met someone on the 'net that they thought was O.K. but after they met them in real life ,they got their world turned to shit for a while.

I've had many people that I've met on the 'net that I'd really like to meet in person but if I can't believe them here, how in the world could I believe them on the streets?

 

[BuzzH]

MD4ME said, "I had one of our own fish & game commisioners tell me that people should be carefull what they wish for because if they get there way and oust the rancher ,then that land will go the way of the subdivision or other big landowneds that wont allow access."

I wonder if that fish and game commissioner has any ties to the livestock industry?

If that commissioner really said that, (who knows with the granny liar), what does he/she base that opinion on? I dont think making welfare ranchers comply with the law is asking too much. If they dont like to play by the rules, tough luck, let them sell off their land to a developer, I really dont care. Its their land they can do what they want with it, I wont try to get in their way. But, they also wont be getting in my way, or Jon Marvels way, for demanding that they adhere to laws and improve the condition of MY FEDERAL LANDS. They may act and think they own those federal leases, but I got some news, they dont.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"I wonder if that fish and game commissioner has any ties to the livestock industry?"

Buzz to answer that question ,NO ,no ties to the livestock industry at all.
In fact he lean's more towards your thinking ,and see's the need to get the rancher's under control.
I thought it was intersting how much his thinking and some of the others on the board are a lot alike ( only without the shit slinging that Ithaca does.)
My point always being that we all understand we have problems but Ithaca's way of bashing everyone does nothing but turn people off.


Mars,you have got to be freaking joking?
I told everyone what I said to the guy getting people to sign the petition,did you ever hear the rest of that story?
I guess I thought you had a better sense of humor then that.
Damn if that is how a person decided someone is a lier LOL Moosie and his humor is in deep shit.
Talk about lie's ,how about we bring up the ones I called Ithaca for on the ATV club?
He posted out right lies with legal pictures trying to get people to believe they were riding in an illegal manner.
How about the post he deletes any time he gets call out????
He can sling the shit but he cryes like a girly man if anyone come's close to him . LOL
I guess his untactfull email telling me he was comming after me on the forum ,so I should just shut up now just didnt set well with me.


Dan,the link I provided was one Ithaca gave ,many of his links go back to radical green org.
Many of us have proved that,but I guess if we all arent backing the same people in this forum we can be labled anything that suite's there fancy.
I will ask again ,how many of you would post a link to such a NUT case web site even IF it supported your ranching hating agenda?????
I sure wouldnt ,I am pretty sure most of you wouldnt either,not inless you read that crap and have some tie's to it's thinking.

Ithaca has bad mouthed so many people on this forum and as I hear he had the same style on the last forum and wasnt liked very well on that one either.
We have (I should say we HAD) rancher's ,ATV owner's that used to visit this forum ,but because of Ithaca shit bashing and labling they no longer visit.
Ithaca is a sorry old cranky man ,that has no manner's what so ever ,and he think's he own's this forum.
So screw you Ithaca if you dont like it have Mars or moosie BAN ME .
I am not the one posting web site's that support non-hunting ,non-meat eating to try to futher my rancher bashing agenda.
Prove me wrong that your ideas and that site dont go hand in hand!!!!!!!
Your posts prove other wise.

 

[Ithaca 37]

MD, You're a very sick woman. Get some help.

 

[Michaelr]

md4me,

What is this shit about a lie??
I guess I missed that thread

Must of been during the war when I was as good as my word and didn't fight with anybody

Give me a link, I bet it is a crock of shit.
Why, I seem to remember catching somebody in a lie and they deleted the post

Imagine that

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Ithaca,I ran into one of your buddies that was out collection signiture I told him I was going to sign, but I know this burk guy and he knows everything and he told me not to sign it because it was a load of crap The guy about fell over and said (burk) told you that? I just said yep and walked away."

Mike ,this is what Ithaca keeps bring up.

Like I said before ,if anyone want's to take that post and make me out to be a lier ,I think they need to get a sence of humor.
By the way Mike,Steve and I both turned around laughing and told the guy I was just joking and that Burk and I have been going round and round on line.
Is was the first petition being passed around to revamp our Fish & Game commision , Steve and I also had a petition that we signed and got other's to sign.

Ithaca is grasping.
We all know Ithaca's favorite thing to do when backed into a wall is to start calling name's and labling people .
If I got a nickle for every time Ithaca called someone else a lier I would be rich by now.

All anyone has to do is look through the post's (the one's that havent been deleted by Ithaca) and everyone will see Ithaca use's name calling all the time ,again lier is one of his favorite one's.
I do believe all of us that dont agree with him and have the gall to say so have been labled a lier-------------I chalk it up to look who's calling name's AGAIN.