I have no words for this one,

[Erik in AK]

Matt,
Why are you defending bad behavior? The protestors at SAC were certainly within their rights to protest the presence of a military recruiting sergeant. The problem is they assaulted him, maybe not physically but verbal assault counts too. Deriding a man who has dedicated his whole adult life to serving his nation, their nation, for what? Because they hate the current administration or they have an unrational fear of a draft that won't ever come. Why take it out on SFC Due? He's just trying to do his job--sitting at a table handing out brochures(which are Govt property), talking to young people about the Army--you know...recruiting. Its not like Due runs a press gang, he's a salesman who sells hitches in the Army.

All the students and faculty had to do was ignore him, instead they chose to showcase just how crude and violent Peace-niks are willing to get in order to get their way.

and by the way, your assertion that military people have the right to protest is incorrect. Members of the military do not have 1st Amendment rights to the same extent as civilians. There is a means of seeking redress but one must bear in mind ones obligation to the Constitution, to maintaining good order and discipline, and to avoid actions that bring discredit to the U.S., the President, or the Service.

You are correct about the political neutrality of the military. Military folks are encouraged to educate themselves on the issues and to vote but not for whom or for what.

 

[MattK]

Erik- You bring up a good point about verbal assault. However, I can not hear what they are saying to him. As I was not there and the caption did not tell what they were saying.

I agree with you on basically "not shooting the messenger". However, the messenger was acting as an agent of the subject of the demonstration. No difference than an abortion doctor acting as an agent which the demonstrators are against. They too have a right to demonstrate outside a doctors office. (With some differences due to recent court cases.)

As to why I defend bad behavior from students. It is the same reason I defend bad behavior from adults and anyone else that is demonstrating. I am not defending their position, I am defending their right to do so. Freedom isn't something that is just given to us. Everyday it has to be fought for to keep what is already there. It is way too easy for a government to take away liberties and most people wouldn't know or care until it was much too late.

 

[ELKCHSR]

We can justify any thing in our own minds to try and make it right, no matter how far fetched and outlandish... it still doesn't make it right.

 

[BigHornRam]

I like it when leftist kooks like Matt, his brother in law Buzz, Michael Moron, and Ward Churchill try to defend bad behavior from spoiled punks like this, or when they promote there ultra negative, anti-American, anti-military, hate filled rhetoric. Just guarentees that their "views" will never be taken seriously. Matt, you sure have spent a lot of "valuable" time and effort to defend bad behavior by those people in the photo. They have the right to protest peacefully, but in this incedent they crossed that line. If you cannot see what everyone else can plainly see, then your subsidized education was a complete waste of the taxpayers contribution.

 

[cjcj]

I like it when leftist kooks like Matt, his brother in law Buzz, Michael Moron, and Ward Churchill try to defend bad behavior from spoiled punks like this, or when they promote there ultra negative, anti-American, anti-military, hate filled rhetoric. Just guarentees that their "views" will never be taken seriously. Matt, you sure have spent a lot of "valuable" time and effort to defend bad behavior by those people in the photo. They have the right to protest peacefully, but in this incedent they crossed that line. If you cannot see what everyone else can plainly see, then your subsidized education was a complete waste of the taxpayers contribution.

"Perfecto" [Bighornram] hump

 

[Ten Bears]

EG, I don't think any ATVers have much to fear from you. As I remember it, you don't have time to be wasted getting their license or sticker numbers. Therefore, you could go report theses "riots" on a daily basis, but you'd just look like chicken little running to the LEO, "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" / "the ATVers are rioting, the ATVers are rioting".

MATT, you are right about one thing, FREEDOM isn't FREE, and I can tell you from first hand experience that even in other democracies they are not as free as we are. I have been in other democracies when "american demonstraters" were shown on the news, and I'll tell you the nationals around me were just disgusted at the "spoiled attitude" of the americans "abusing" the freedoms they wished they had. So, just keep spouting your lernt it in college, no experience in the world milk sop dribble, but remember, OUR goverment didn't and doesn't start the day with an agenda of tyranny.

 

[MattK]

TB- Are you joking?! Other countries have different rules than the United States?! Other countries have different laws and constitutions?! Next you're going to tell me they have different flags and leaders?! Holy Cow, I guess I'll have to completely rethink my entire argument!

The UNITED STATES goes by the US CONSTITUTION, therefore we follow those laws. I'll care about the laws in England and France when I go there to visit or live...until then let's stick to the United States rules. Nice Try but still haven't proven to me 1) it was violent 2) they were students 3) they were anything but peaceful 4) they don't have a right to demonstrate.

 

[MattK]

BHR- My education wasn't subsidized by anyone. It was paid by myself and through private scholarships. The only people who helped were my parents by letting me live at home while I attended the University while I was working a full time job.

 

[cjcj]

Full time job? What ? picking fly shit out of pepper barrels.. wearing boxing gloves?

 

[MattK]

How about a 40 hour per week job. A lot of nights and every weekend. Put extra time in during the summer. Oh, I also made sure I was a full time student.

 

[cjcj]

Good Boy Matt... I`m proud of you...i truly am... if you could just [never mind] then you wouldn`t be Matt.

 

[BigHornRam]

Matty,

If you paid instate tuition, then your education was subsidized. I'm guessing you were a UM grad. How about all those years prior to that? Any of that education subsidized?

 

[Erik in AK]

Posted by MattK
"...As to why I defend bad behavior from students. It is the same reason I defend bad behavior from adults and anyone else that is demonstrating. I am not defending their position, I am defending their right to do so. Freedom isn't something that is just given to us. Everyday it has to be fought for to keep what is already there. It is way too easy for a government to take away liberties and most people wouldn't know or care until it was much too late."

Matt, in all sincerity, you have it exactly backwards. There is never an excuse to defend bad behavior, unless of course you indentify too closely with the protestors and your objectivity has been compromised.

You see I am defending their position and their right to assert that position. What I cannot abide is a crowd of cowards, feeling the strength of their numbers, ganging up on an Army sergeant who was not there to debate or contradict them. They knew he would not "fight back" making him an easy target. Let me ask you something...if a recruiter from the Dept of Health and Human Services was on campus that day do you really believe that person would have ben subjected to the same kind of abuse. After all, isn't an employee of the DHHS an "agent of the goverment"?

He was there at that time(and I'm gussing here) because SAC was on his calandar for that day. Recruiters are under a lot of pressure to meet monthly quotas. If they fail to keep a steady stream of warm bodies headed off to Basic their careers suffer permanent damage. Giving Due the benefit of the doubt, he never thought twice about the date and most likely the commander of Army Recruiters for Washington and/or Due's immediate supervisor, did not make the connection that sending a recruiter to a known ultra-liberal campus like SAC on the day of the inauguration was a recipe for conflict. Now to be fair, If Due's appearance on campus was in fact a deliberate attempt to put "an agent of the government" at the protest then the Army shares the responsibility for this incident.

Matt go back and study the photo. Look at the facial expressions and gestures of the protestors. Those are not the faces of peaceful protest. Those people were angry and they took their anger out on Due. Their anger was rapidly evolving into violence i.e. ripping up the brochures.

One last thing...please clarify what liberties were being denied to the protestors?
Their actions during the course of the protest were wrong, not their reasons for protesting.

 

[MattK]

BHR- The University system is subsidized by both state and federal money. How that money is used is really not my concern, as that is the job of the Board of Regents and University Administration. To say my education was subsidized because I paid in state tuition is like saying your Montana Hunting License is subsidized because you pay in-state fees. Nice Try...

I guess you could say my schooling was subsidized up until I went to college (although my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.) payed a lot of taxes. I believe your education was probably subsidized for the same time period...oh wait, I take that back. I'll rephrase that...it could have been covered for the same time period...

 

[MattK]

Erik- First, I can not hear what the protestors were saying. I wasn't there so I do not know the "mood" of the crowd. However, I can say I have been to a lot of basketball games where referees have been led off the court by Police officers. All the while the crowds chanting (normally not real nice things). The police were there in case anything were to happen NOT because anything had happened. They were there to ensure peace. You are correct when you say the recruiter was just doing his job. At the same time, abortion doctors deal with this daily and they are just "doing their job". If the recruiter was assaulted in any way, I would agree, the person should be prosecuted. I would have to assume, since there were no arrests, there was not an assault on the recruiter. (As a side note... there are supreme court cases that deal with demonstrators following an individual around and demonstrating toward that individual. That would be illegal.)

All demonstrations are toward "somebody" just doing "their job". It's pretty difficult to demonstrate against a cigarette without demonstrating against the people producing the cigarette. (You can exchange cigarette for any inanimate object.)

As it stood, no liberties were taken from the demonstrators. They did their demonstration, the recruiter(s) left for the day, and nothing else probably came of it.

 

[BigHornRam]

Matty,

I didn't say my education wasn't subsidized. It was. You said YOUR education wasn't subsidized. You were wrong, just like you've been wrong on this whole thread. At least the tax payers got their money's worth with me. With you they should be screaming for a refund. Face it Matt, your not even a good liar. Your comment on what was the "deal breaker" for you on Bush was good for a laugh however. CJ caught you on that fib and schooled you good. Man if I was you, I'd sue your profs for negligence. They let you down.

 

[MattK]

The "deal breaker" comment was meant as a laugh. That wasn't the reason I didn't vote for him. My education was only subsidized in so much as the University System is subsidized. I personally, never got any grants, loans etc. to pay for tuition, books, etc. In that way I was not subsidized, reading the context of what was written, that is what was really meant. But, you can write as you wish. I'm quite proud of the work I have done at the University and the accomplishment of graduating.

 

[SageGhost]

thats the left coast for ya.

i think that the Army Recruiter was smiling because he knew over 8 million Iraqis were going to vote. and the demonstrators were mad because they knew that their vote didnt count when the voted for John (flipper) Kerry

 

[JoseCuervo]

We can justify any thing in our own minds to try and make it right, no matter how far fetched and outlandish... it still doesn't make it right.

Can we get a translator in here? Anybody?

 

[ELKCHSR]

Thanks again for the pitch gunner...