Hunting With My Less Accurate Rifles

[Michael Case]

Ohh I can't resist adding this

recall theold Zen saying. "Chop wood, carry water"

Mine is "Chop wood, carry quaretrs" as long as I can.

Me thinks we have a connection on two levels. One a teacher's heart, two a need to glean as much as possible from "Life"

Sadly many see nothing of what I'm saying.

It takes "The Inner Soul" to recognize this.

The essence - the Spirit of the Earth.

What Native Americans feel.

Like last year, I sat 45 minutes, 10 feet from 2 doe and watched them feed, put down my rifle and enjoyed their existence. They acknowledged me by stomping on the ground occasionally.

This was a wonderful hunting day.

 

[MTLabrador]

Is an 03 Springfield any less of a military rifle than an AR? Why is it wrong to hunt with one and not the other?

 

[HuntTalk Freak]

Is an 03 Springfield any less of a military rifle than an AR? Why is it wrong to hunt with one and not the other?

Because these postings are either satire, insanity or dementia.

 

[MTLabrador]

Because these postings are either satire, insanity or dementia.

I’m bored, felt like having fun with it.

 

[Michael Case]

I believe from the last few responses I have proved my original point!

It's like drawing out iron to see if it can hold a temper!

Mindsets are just the same

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Is an 03 Springfield any less of a military rifle than an AR? Why is it wrong to hunt with one and not the other?

Malcolm Waddell died about 30 years ago. We were only friends for the last three years of his life.



He literally grew up with our countries National Forest system.



So many of them were created around the time he was born and during his youth. He explored so many of them.



He was too young for WW1 and too old for WW2.



Not many people realize that the effort to create and pass the 1937 Federal Aid To Wildlife Act,,,also known as Pittman-Robertson Act was originally begun by WW1 vets.



Malcolm jumped right on the bandwagon with that after the war. He helped organize, wrote letters,,,hung around with the vets.



As a thank you for all his efforts they gave him a 30-06 Springfield rifle and then paid for all the gunsmithing work to turn it into a custom sporter.



It had light bright rock maple stock beautifully hand checkered, made to fit him. The bolt was satin chrome and fit for a scope, the safety was changed for scope use. African style iron leaf sights were installed. I cannot recall what type of rings it had.



It was blued with that so very deep rich finish Winchester used in it’s first bolt action rifles, the Model 54.



It was the only big game rifle he ever owned. The scope was a 4x fixed Lyman. He took every species of big game in America with it, Rocky Mt. Big Horn Ram ,,,Mountain Goat and caribou in Canada and a Grizzly too, though he declined to shoot a wolf.



We went shooting a few times but his hunting days were done. By the standards of the day his Springfield was a tack driver,,,1 ¼ to 1 ½ inches at one hundred yards.



I never knew a man who knew so much about wild life. Right after WW1 an oil boom hit the West coast. The population exploded and he saw wildlife just disappear.



He was so proud of all the conservation acts he saw enacted in his life,,all of which he actively supported, including the Wilderness Act.



He gave me a spike elk antler. I had an original Green River carbon steel skinning knife blade and made a handle for it.



Carbon steel is so good to use for starting fires,,,hit with a flint, it really throws off the sparks,

 

[Michael Case]

Because these postings are either satire, insanity or dementia.

Interesting comment, your wording in jest is disturbing tho.

Lately I've seen up close and personal "Dementia, and Alzheimer's" not pretty, not funny, not a Joke.

A grown human being full of life turned into less than a child. And then Death if there lucky.

Your comment is Repulsive, adolescent and demeaning.

And yes this is a open Rebuke!!

 

[HuntTalk Freak]

 

[KB_]

Sounds like Mustangs Rule needs a new rifle, his equipment is not shooting straight anymore.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Sounds like Mustangs Rule needs a new rifle, his equipment is not shooting straight anymore.

Whn I started this post, I was thinking about my model 70 .270 made in 1952. I was getting 1 1/4 " to 1 1/2 " at one hundred yards.

Both my Sako .308 and Kimber 280AI were shooting sub-moa,,,in the 5/8" to 3/4" range.

Then I begane to take that scresw going through the forend into a barrel lug, more seriously. The barrel cann ot be free floated wuth it,,,but by adjusting it, it is finicky,,,I was able to get the old rifle to shoot under a half inch at 100 yards.

And yes I know that when the wood moves slightly by virtue of weather and mositure, the POI will change a bit. I can live with that with a smile.

No need for another rifle,,,heaven only knows I have had wy too many already.

 

[Michael Case]

Yeah, a guy that can kill an animal beyond the generally accepted range of "ethical" hunters just "hunts" to be a sniper. mtmuley

Thinking on this idea of "Sniper" so much of that craft is mindset. Most of the folks I have met with that MOS on their DD214 don't discuss it

 

[OntarioHunter]

I have been a one-gun guy for fifty-six years. In 1962 Dad mail ordered a pair of WWII surplus Springfields from an ad in American Rifleman. He and a gunsmith coworker worked them up into nice hunting guns and I got their first attempt. A horse rolled on me in the late seventies and broke the stock. I fitted it with a new one. It was a late production model with just two rifle lans in the barrel. Never mattered much to me that it wasn't a tack driver. I preferred stalking animals in heavy timber for close shots. Superior accuracy wasn't needed for that style of hunting. But in recent years I've become more of a wide open spaces hunter which requires some longer shots. Dad's old war horse wasn't reliable enough and it's 3x Weaver didn't cut the mustard. So I had a choice: put the Springfield into retirement or rejuvenate it with upgrades. As one who is now unhappily too often regarded as something of a useless old relic, I opted for rejuvenation. First, I upgraded to a 3x9 Nikon scope. Not super duper optics but definitely several steps up from that battered old Weaver. Messing around with reloads didn't improve the gun's accuracy. In fact, it was becoming increasingly unreliable, throwing the occasional wild flyer. The barrel was done for: a lot of pitting in the rifling as well as a badly corroded section of the bore about 2/3 way up from receiver. So I bought another barrel for my recent trip to Africa. Getting it put on in time proved to be a nightmare but I finally managed to shoot some paper the day before flying out. Seemed to throw an okay group so it went in my baggage. But the first day hunting that gun went in the toilet. I managed to get a hartbeest with it but just barely. It was embarrassing. Springfield was shooting erratic again so I switched to lodge's loaner '06. Turns out my rebedding job left something to be desired: the action came loose. After coming home, I fixed the bedding, dropped in a Timney trigger, and I now have a tack driver. The last four rounds in the box from this afternoon at the range are on this salvaged target (I forgot mine at home). Holes with X are previous shooter's (looks like 6.5 calibre?). The 30 cal hole at top of diamond was first of last four rounds at 100 yds. I mistakenly thought it was three inches high and took the scope down four clicks. My last three rounds are just above and left of the bullseye. Two final rounds are essentially in the same hole. Two clicks up and one to the right should put me where I need this gun to be. So now it's a tack driver. Reborn! Maybe someday I'll be too old to hunt but that gun should outlast me ... and my grandson.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Mustangs, I didn't see the second page when I posted mine. Malcom and I are clearly cut from the same cloth. We both stuck with one gun, which happened to be Springfields, for sentimental as well as practical reasons. 30-06 will do it all. The typical AR calibres not so much. And for me, staying stuck to the war horse was also a matter of economics. My late wife never complained about my hunting, mostly I think because I was considerate about how much I spent on a passion that the family did not or could not share. Now I can afford fishing trips in Alaska and hunting in Africa, but I see no reason to change my ethics. I'm being watched by the next generations. They need to know there's more to life than buying shit just because they can. Someday when my grandson stops for a candy bar on the trail of a bull moose (or kudu?) and checks the safety on my old Springfield, maybe he'll ask himself why a multimillionaire would keep hunting with a beat up old gun like that. I'm hoping he won't. Hopefully he'll already know the answer.

Thanks for posting your thoughts and getting a few of us thinking as well. Don't fret about the peanut gallery children who haven't grown up. We live in the age of cheap mass produced crap. Why should the people who buy it be any deeper than the Walmart parking lot mud puddles they flock to?

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Mustangs, I didn't see the second page when I posted mine. Malcom and I are clearly cut from the same cloth. We both stuck with one gun, which happened to be Springfields, for sentimental as well as practical reasons. 30-06 will do it all. The typical AR calibres not so much. And for me, staying stuck to the war horse was also a matter of economics. My late wife never complained about my hunting, mostly I think because I was considerate about how much I spent on a passion that the family did not or could not share. Now I can afford fishing trips in Alaska and hunting in Africa, but I see no reason to change my ethics. I'm being watched by the next generations. They need to know there's more to life than buying shit just because they can. Someday when my grandson stops for a candy bar on the trail of a bull moose (or kudu?) and checks the safety on my old Springfield, maybe he'll ask himself why a multimillionaire would keep hunting with a beat up old gun like that. I'm hoping he won't. Hopefully he'll already know the answer.

Thanks for posting your thoughts and getting a few of us thinking as well. Don't fret about the peanut gallery children who haven't grown up. We live in the age of cheap mass produced crap. Why should the people who buy it be any deeper than the Walmart parking lot mud puddles they flock to?

To Ontario Hunter



The last custom rifle my dear friend and master gunsmith built was my 35 Whelen on a commercial FN mauser action. He was pretty sick then and going blind.



He hardly charged me for his work. More of a gift than a paid for service. He messed up the bedding. I never told him that I had a younger gunsmith redo his work.



Why? He had done such great work for me over decades,,,,,let it be.



The big advantage Remington 700’s have is easy bedding. The receiver is a milled bar of round stock with a recoil lug,,,pretty slick.



Springfields, Mausers and Model 70’ have a lot of in’s, outs flats and rounds in their receivers and poor bedding will really hurt accuracy. Just fitting a wood stock to them required a now rare high level of skill. Once all was done well,,,boy could they shoot.



Going down to visit with Jimmy my old gunsmith led to many a new/old rifle. My major rifle forever has been a FN 30-06 original Browning. I never wanted to replace the factory hard plastic butt plate with a recoil pad. As such it has spent much time in the safe. It kicks.



Iron Sight Co. from Tulsa Ok, rebuilds fixed Weaver scopes. I go back and forth with scope choices, but stop at 3-9’s.



For deer and elk, I go back and forth between an old Model 70 in 270 and a very light Kimber in 280AI.



I take comfort that the 280AI is built on a steamlined model 70 action.



Good to hear from you.



MR

 

[Don Fischer]

I have been a one-gun guy for fifty-six years. In 1962 Dad mail ordered a pair of WWII surplus Springfields from an ad in American Rifleman. He and a gunsmith coworker worked them up into nice hunting guns and I got their first attempt. A horse rolled on me in the late seventies and broke the stock. I fitted it with a new one. It was a late production model with just two rifle lans in the barrel. Never mattered much to me that it wasn't a tack driver. I preferred stalking animals in heavy timber for close shots. Superior accuracy wasn't needed for that style of hunting. But in recent years I've become more of a wide open spaces hunter which requires some longer shots. Dad's old war horse wasn't reliable enough and it's 3x Weaver didn't cut the mustard. So I had a choice: put the Springfield into retirement or rejuvenate it with upgrades. As one who is now unhappily too often regarded as something of a useless old relic, I opted for rejuvenation. First, I upgraded to a 3x9 Nikon scope. Not super duper optics but definitely several steps up from that battered old Weaver. Messing around with reloads didn't improve the gun's accuracy. In fact, it was becoming increasingly unreliable, throwing the occasional wild flyer. The barrel was done for: a lot of pitting in the rifling as well as a badly corroded section of the bore about 2/3 way up from receiver. So I bought another barrel for my recent trip to Africa. Getting it put on in time proved to be a nightmare but I finally managed to shoot some paper the day before flying out. Seemed to throw an okay group so it went in my baggage. But the first day hunting that gun went in the toilet. I managed to get a hartbeest with it but just barely. It was embarrassing. Springfield was shooting erratic again so I switched to lodge's loaner '06. Turns out my rebedding job left something to be desired: the action came loose. After coming home, I fixed the bedding, dropped in a Timney trigger, and I now have a tack driver. The last four rounds in the box from this afternoon at the range are on this salvaged target (I forgot mine at home). Holes with X are previous shooter's (looks like 6.5 calibre?). The 30 cal hole at top of diamond was first of last four rounds at 100 yds. I mistakenly thought it was three inches high and took the scope down four clicks. My last three rounds are just above and left of the bullseye. Two final rounds are essentially in the same hole. Two clicks up and one to the right should put me where I need this gun to be. So now it's a tack driver. Reborn! Maybe someday I'll be too old to hunt but that gun should outlast me ... and my grandson. View attachment 193151View attachment 193152View attachment 193153

By God that old Springfield look's a lot like mine right down to the scope. My scope is a 2 3/4x Denver Redfield! Great rifle! You still have the military two stage trigger in yours? I do. Been cleaned up and my favorite trigger!

 

[OntarioHunter]

By God that old Springfield look's a lot like mine right down to the scope. My scope is a 2 3/4x Denver Redfield! Great rifle! You still have the military two stage trigger in yours? I do. Been cleaned up and my favorite trigger!

Nope, I just dropped a Timney trigger in it two days ago. A bit tricky. Back in 1962 Dad's coworker put a modified adjustable trigger in it of his own design. Worked okay but shooting my PH's sweet Timney equipped 270 WSM convinced me something better might be nice. Anyway, my retired gunsmith buddy had picked a Timney up for me two years ago. He just couldn't get it to fit. Since I had the gun apart to fix a bedding issue I figured I may as well give it a try. Made it work. Maybe the pull is a little lighter than the former trigger but the crispness is a world of different. I still have the old 3x Weaver that gun wore for forty years. Three years ago I went with better glass to help my fading vision. And my style of hunting has also changed. No longer tracking animals in snowy timber for close shots. More open land hunting now. The replacement barrel has a high hooded front sight so I'll pick up a Weaver base compatible rear peep sight as backup. Too bad no one makes a quick detachable mount to fit Springfield. I can't find one anyway.

 

[geetar]

There’s no need to get offended, I’m not judging him. I’m simply saying that O’Connor wasn’t shy about describing very long range shots for the limited technology of his time. He wasn’t shy about taking running shots either, and he wrote about doing it frequently.

Rinella even talked about this on one of his podcasts. He didn’t enjoy the O’Connor book Janis Putelis urged him to read for this reason.

Before anyone lops my head off I own a .270 and would have given a lot to hunt with Jack O’Connor.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I have become quite proficient at running shots and done well with long shots too. But I don't recommend it for anyone. I shoot thousands of rounds every year skeet/trap/clays which helps immensely with running shots. Long range requires better equipment than I want invest in. I just shot a kudu last week at 440 yards ... with a borrowed fancy CZ short magnum wearing a $1,300 scope.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Rinella even talked about this on one of his podcasts. He didn’t enjoy the O’Connor book Janis Putelis urged him to read for this reason.

Before anyone lops my head off I own a .270 and would have given a lot to hunt with Jack O’Connor.

The White Brick.

From Jack O'Connor's trophy room window he could see his neighbors chimney. It had a white brick in with the red ones.



He used to constantly pick up a rifle, aim offhand at the brick, and dry fire on it, calling his shot as the firing pin fell.



He also used to do the same aiming at hubcaps of cars driving by his home in Lewiston, Idaho.



Jack “attended the running Jack rabbit shooting school “ as a kid and as and adult.



I shoot horses, cattle, domestic sheep and whitetail deer,,,,,with dry fire snap caps in my rifle of choice.



I usually do that a few times times every day. Sometimes more, some days not. Currently my rifle of choice is a model 70 in 6.5x55.



It sits behind my bedroom door. I look out and see some animal, grab my rifle, open it, see the maroon snap cap and have a practice shot at them sitting or moving



Going back some years I began shooting wild boar under any circumstances. There were so many of them, I had depredation permits. I was very timid at first with running shots, but I took close ones at slow moving boar and they just dropped. It was dry country and often I could see the dust from my bullets, guiding me to the correct lead.



Over leading was a good idea at first, better a miss than a hit behind, but even then, a more powerful, yet reasonable caliber dropped them for a second shot.



As described previously I set up moving targets on a pully on old telgraph cables going to wild fire look out stations from days gone by.



Another habit I have is wandering about game country off season with “snap caps” and practicing every possible shot at game animals I encounter.



I am breaking no laws doing that.



Some people play video games. I go about dry firing and calling my shots as the firing pin drops.



Developing such shooting skills is a lifetime endeavor and requires a different mindset and firearms.

I prefer low powered fixed scopes, or variables that are 2 X at the low settings.

When actually hunting I take shots that are way under and easier than what I have practiced for.



I have almost 30 pairs of deer antlers on my garage walls. All are still attached to chunk of skull. All are Sky Island mule deer. Where I once lived, isolated mountains ranges that rose up out of the flat desert were called “Sky Islands”. I found that when just mildly surprised, these deer gave me about two seconds for a standing shot while they were assessing what was going on with me.



A few of those antlers might be called wall hangers. Most are fork horns, quite a few have just a small legal fork on one side and a spike on the other side.



The filled out tags are still attached with basic info plus some extra data regarding how I hunted and shot them. Two thirds of these deer were taken, could only have been taken, with my well practiced Two Second Offhand Shot,,,, in scrub oak, manzanita bushes and even cactus tangles down by the Mexican border. Sometimes the deer were standing, sometimes just moving, most were up close.



I have practiced all my basic shooting positions. The four techniques for moving game and recognize in an instant the four gaits tanimals use.



A another form of practice I have shot at endless ground squirrels offhand, sitting and running, rabbits too.



All that has come together in my shooting computer over decades. I have never wounded and lost a game animal.

 

[OntarioHunter]

The White Brick.

From Jack O'Connor's trophy room window he could see his neighbors chimney. It had a white brick in with the red ones.



He used to constantly pick up a rifle, aim offhand at the brick, and dry fire on it, calling his shot as the firing pin fell.



He also used to do the same aiming at hubcaps of cars driving by his home in Lewiston, Idaho.



Jack “attended the running Jack rabbit shooting school “ as a kid and as and adult.



I shoot horses, cattle, domestic sheep and whitetail deer,,,,,with dry fire snap caps in my rifle of choice.



I usually do that a few times times every day. Sometimes more, some days not. Currently my rifle of choice is a model 70 in 6.5x55.



It sits behind my bedroom door. I look out and see some animal, grab my rifle, open it, see the maroon snap cap and have a practice shot at them sitting or moving



Going back some years I began shooting wild boar under any circumstances. There were so many of them, I had depredation permits. I was very timid at first with running shots, but I took close ones at slow moving boar and they just dropped. It was dry country and often I could see the dust from my bullets, guiding me to the correct lead.



Over leading was a good idea at first, better a miss than a hit behind, but even then, a more powerful, yet reasonable caliber dropped them for a second shot.



As described previously I set up moving targets on a pully on old telgraph cables going to wild fire look out stations from days gone by.



Another habit I have is wandering about game country off season with “snap caps” and practicing every possible shot at game animals I encounter.



I am breaking no laws doing that.



Some people play video games. I go about dry firing and calling my shots as the firing pin drops.



Developing such shooting skills is a lifetime endeavor and requires a different mindset and firearms.

I prefer low powered fixed scopes, or variables that are 2 X at the low settings.

When actually hunting I take shots that are way under and easier than what I have practiced for.



I have almost 30 pairs of deer antlers on my garage walls. All are still attached to chunk of skull. All are Sky Island mule deer. Where I once lived, isolated mountains ranges that rose up out of the flat desert were called “Sky Islands”. I found that when just mildly surprised, these deer gave me about two seconds for a standing shot while they were assessing what was going on with me.



A few of those antlers might be called wall hangers. Most are fork horns, quite a few have just a small legal fork on one side and a spike on the other side.



The filled out tags are still attached with basic info plus some extra data regarding how I hunted and shot them. Two thirds of these deer were taken, could only have been taken, with my well practiced Two Second Offhand Shot,,,, in scrub oak, manzanita bushes and even cactus tangles down by the Mexican border. Sometimes the deer were standing, sometimes just moving, most were up close.



I have practiced all my basic shooting positions. The four techniques for moving game and recognize in an instant the four gaits tanimals use.



A another form of practice I have shot at endless ground squirrels offhand, sitting and running, rabbits too.



All that has come together in my shooting computer over decades. I have never wounded and lost a game animal.

I live in town and would be divested of my guns in short order if anyone saw me drawing a bead on tires as the vehicles rolled down the street. And then sent off to the psych ward for assessment. Sounds like something O'Connor would do. He was not well loved in Lewiston.

I shoot a lot of skeet low gun and that has built my confidence in moving shots with a rifle. On stations one and seven I'll often pull the target with gun hooked under my arm. Gotta do something to make it challenging.