Reading a lot of the threads about "is state XYZ worth building points or applying" is what has caused me to try put my thoughts into a cogent message. This interest in multi-state apps makes me think back to when I started doing this multi-state gig decades ago and the upheaval created in 2008.
I started applying in multiple states in 1995. As the economy picked up in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the interest in western hunting and multi-state applications picked up. In 1996 a CPA client who was a sheep guide introduced me to a guy from Utah who was starting a business that would cater specifically to folks interested in multi-state hunting. I signed up for the newsletter, though I passed on his application services, feeling my spreadsheet skills were sufficient to analyze the odds. I secretly thought this guy was crazy to build a business model on multi-state hunting and nobody would leave their application process in the hands of a stranger. Given the success Huntin' Fool had, I was the fool to doubt what a good economy could do to interest in multi-state non-resident hunting.
As 2008 started and application season was underway, things seem to be golden, almost too good. "The market only goes up," or so was the attitude of the day. I remember hearing CPA clients who leveraged their homes for investment property claim, "Nobody ever loses money on real estate." Along came October 2008. A kick in the groin for those not prepared for such. And throughout the west a drop in non-resident hunting applications followed in 2009 through 2013.
For those sitting on some cash and points, this financial turmoil was "the good old days" for a multi-state western hunter. It stayed that way for another three or four years before the economy started to show signs of recovery. I know quite a few Hunt Talkers who were prepared and ended up being able to take advantage of that situation.
Some new to the tag/point game might think this is crazy, but I was picking up Wyoming Region H deer as a left over. I drew many Wyoming pronghorn as 2nd choice that now require 4+ points. Competition for Nevada tags was far less as California neighbors scrambled to keep the foreclosure agents at bay. Point creep that had developed for Colorado's best deer tags flattened out for a few years. Wyoming elk was almost a guarantee if one was not too picky. Combined with a price increase to non-residents, Montana was not selling out the non-resident combo tags. The same scenario was repeated across most western states.
That brings me to wonder what will happen the next time the economy slows, and it surely will; just a function of degrees. When it slows, those sitting on points and cash will be in a situation to take advantage of the disruption. There will be some states/species that will seem immune to such, given the investment many have made in some states. Example being CO elk, for which point creep didn't seem to slow down even during the last recession. I attribute that to CO being one of the first states to have a point system and attracting many "early adopters," the appeal that elk has, and what little investment CO required to continue building points at that time. But, that was the exception to the general rule of soft demand for most states/species.
I learned a few things from that "point market cycle." Multi-state non-resident hunting interest has it ebbs and flows and is a function of discretionary budgets in most households. There are always a few that have hunting as their highest priority and will cut other budget line items before cutting their hunting budgets. I've learned that what I am investing in today for points is not always with a focus on the "state of the market" today, but also a function of what I think the future holds.
Point systems will change. The value derived from your prior investment might not be as good as you expected a few years down the road. It is why I left a lot of points on the table in Oregon after their last big price increase and their reduction in NR tag quotas. It is why I left Wyoming moose and sheep when they increased point costs and have since raised them again.
With time and priority, I've built a very generous budget for hunting applications, at the expense of other household budgets. But, I still look at what is the best value for my investment. Value is what I see as the returns for today, but also when the financial market adjusts in the next few years, as most predict it will. I will bail on Utah once I burn my antelope and general deer points. Now starting at the bottom of the elk/deer point pile there is just not enough value there when considering what interests me and what I can do elsewhere with that money. I'll probably buy more raffle tickets for sheep hunts and feel I get a better return, given my age and my desire to hunt a Desert or Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep before I'm too old. Someone in a different situation of finances or interest would make a different assessment of value than I would. Some with a different interest would maybe keep Utah and drop a different state.
Some might think I have little discretion when it comes to tags and applications, due to what we need for our video content. I surely do, as this endeavor gets funded by my own money when the budgets are bigger than the bank account. I provide my priority below that reflects what I want to hunt and states that offer value for the things that interest me. The states that do not provide much value have been, or will be, dropped and money reallocated to things I find more appealing. I made this priority list a long time ago when I realized I had more hunting interest than I had money. I am glad I did, as it allowed me to focus on what I really wanted and within the confines of my budget. And now looking back, I realize this process allowed me to accomplish a lot of what my goals were.
1. Home state (Montana) - No brainer, given the low cost and points invested.
2. Wyoming - For what I like to do (antelope and elk), Wyoming is a great value and can be done ala carte, without having to buy a non-refundable non-resident license.
3. Arizona - Given my pleasure of quail and archery Coues deer, I will always buy the NR license, so it only make sense to continue applying for all other species.
4. Colorado - I continue to build deer and elk points, though I bailed on antelope once I burned my last pronghorn points in 2004. Never got in the moose/goat/sheep gig here and probably never will.
5. Nevada - If I'm going to hunt mule deer, I enjoy it most when I hunt with a bow. Nevada is a great investment for that option and low cost for adding on the other species if my lucky number comes up.
6. Utah - Soon to be in my rearview mirror
7. Iowa - Have way too many points and someday need to burn them. When I do, I won't be applying again.
8. Kansas - Enjoyed my hunts there, but given the whitetail hunting I can find in MT, WY, and someday in ID, this is not a good investment of my money.
9. Oregon - already bailed on this one
10. California - Never started, as no time in my life has it looked like a good investment
Alaska, New Mexico, and Idaho don't really represent long-term investments, as they have no point system. I look at them as buying expensive raffle tickets after paying the "cover charge" of a non-refundable non-resident license. I can make a choice about them each year, with no lasting benefit/consequences.
If I had one bit of advice, I would be to keep building points in states where it make sense for both your interest and your budget. Don't throw money at states that don't represent value for what you want to do. I would also be hoarding some cash in an account that is off-limits for anything other than hunting, rather than invest in points in states where one has a marginal interest. The next economic downturn will create opportunities in the "hunting market" and such will be significant for those who are prepared. The advantage goes to those who are prepared.
And back to the reason I started this dissertation - when you ask "Is state XYZ a good investment," only you can answer that question. There is no correct answer from others, as the answer is too dependent upon your personal hunting interests and your budget, both of which will change over time due to your own hunting desires and the economic situation of the times.
Sorry for the ramble. Time to start on a few tax projects and replenish the hunting budget.
I started applying in multiple states in 1995. As the economy picked up in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the interest in western hunting and multi-state applications picked up. In 1996 a CPA client who was a sheep guide introduced me to a guy from Utah who was starting a business that would cater specifically to folks interested in multi-state hunting. I signed up for the newsletter, though I passed on his application services, feeling my spreadsheet skills were sufficient to analyze the odds. I secretly thought this guy was crazy to build a business model on multi-state hunting and nobody would leave their application process in the hands of a stranger. Given the success Huntin' Fool had, I was the fool to doubt what a good economy could do to interest in multi-state non-resident hunting.
As 2008 started and application season was underway, things seem to be golden, almost too good. "The market only goes up," or so was the attitude of the day. I remember hearing CPA clients who leveraged their homes for investment property claim, "Nobody ever loses money on real estate." Along came October 2008. A kick in the groin for those not prepared for such. And throughout the west a drop in non-resident hunting applications followed in 2009 through 2013.
For those sitting on some cash and points, this financial turmoil was "the good old days" for a multi-state western hunter. It stayed that way for another three or four years before the economy started to show signs of recovery. I know quite a few Hunt Talkers who were prepared and ended up being able to take advantage of that situation.
Some new to the tag/point game might think this is crazy, but I was picking up Wyoming Region H deer as a left over. I drew many Wyoming pronghorn as 2nd choice that now require 4+ points. Competition for Nevada tags was far less as California neighbors scrambled to keep the foreclosure agents at bay. Point creep that had developed for Colorado's best deer tags flattened out for a few years. Wyoming elk was almost a guarantee if one was not too picky. Combined with a price increase to non-residents, Montana was not selling out the non-resident combo tags. The same scenario was repeated across most western states.
That brings me to wonder what will happen the next time the economy slows, and it surely will; just a function of degrees. When it slows, those sitting on points and cash will be in a situation to take advantage of the disruption. There will be some states/species that will seem immune to such, given the investment many have made in some states. Example being CO elk, for which point creep didn't seem to slow down even during the last recession. I attribute that to CO being one of the first states to have a point system and attracting many "early adopters," the appeal that elk has, and what little investment CO required to continue building points at that time. But, that was the exception to the general rule of soft demand for most states/species.
I learned a few things from that "point market cycle." Multi-state non-resident hunting interest has it ebbs and flows and is a function of discretionary budgets in most households. There are always a few that have hunting as their highest priority and will cut other budget line items before cutting their hunting budgets. I've learned that what I am investing in today for points is not always with a focus on the "state of the market" today, but also a function of what I think the future holds.
Point systems will change. The value derived from your prior investment might not be as good as you expected a few years down the road. It is why I left a lot of points on the table in Oregon after their last big price increase and their reduction in NR tag quotas. It is why I left Wyoming moose and sheep when they increased point costs and have since raised them again.
With time and priority, I've built a very generous budget for hunting applications, at the expense of other household budgets. But, I still look at what is the best value for my investment. Value is what I see as the returns for today, but also when the financial market adjusts in the next few years, as most predict it will. I will bail on Utah once I burn my antelope and general deer points. Now starting at the bottom of the elk/deer point pile there is just not enough value there when considering what interests me and what I can do elsewhere with that money. I'll probably buy more raffle tickets for sheep hunts and feel I get a better return, given my age and my desire to hunt a Desert or Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep before I'm too old. Someone in a different situation of finances or interest would make a different assessment of value than I would. Some with a different interest would maybe keep Utah and drop a different state.
Some might think I have little discretion when it comes to tags and applications, due to what we need for our video content. I surely do, as this endeavor gets funded by my own money when the budgets are bigger than the bank account. I provide my priority below that reflects what I want to hunt and states that offer value for the things that interest me. The states that do not provide much value have been, or will be, dropped and money reallocated to things I find more appealing. I made this priority list a long time ago when I realized I had more hunting interest than I had money. I am glad I did, as it allowed me to focus on what I really wanted and within the confines of my budget. And now looking back, I realize this process allowed me to accomplish a lot of what my goals were.
1. Home state (Montana) - No brainer, given the low cost and points invested.
2. Wyoming - For what I like to do (antelope and elk), Wyoming is a great value and can be done ala carte, without having to buy a non-refundable non-resident license.
3. Arizona - Given my pleasure of quail and archery Coues deer, I will always buy the NR license, so it only make sense to continue applying for all other species.
4. Colorado - I continue to build deer and elk points, though I bailed on antelope once I burned my last pronghorn points in 2004. Never got in the moose/goat/sheep gig here and probably never will.
5. Nevada - If I'm going to hunt mule deer, I enjoy it most when I hunt with a bow. Nevada is a great investment for that option and low cost for adding on the other species if my lucky number comes up.
6. Utah - Soon to be in my rearview mirror
7. Iowa - Have way too many points and someday need to burn them. When I do, I won't be applying again.
8. Kansas - Enjoyed my hunts there, but given the whitetail hunting I can find in MT, WY, and someday in ID, this is not a good investment of my money.
9. Oregon - already bailed on this one
10. California - Never started, as no time in my life has it looked like a good investment
Alaska, New Mexico, and Idaho don't really represent long-term investments, as they have no point system. I look at them as buying expensive raffle tickets after paying the "cover charge" of a non-refundable non-resident license. I can make a choice about them each year, with no lasting benefit/consequences.
If I had one bit of advice, I would be to keep building points in states where it make sense for both your interest and your budget. Don't throw money at states that don't represent value for what you want to do. I would also be hoarding some cash in an account that is off-limits for anything other than hunting, rather than invest in points in states where one has a marginal interest. The next economic downturn will create opportunities in the "hunting market" and such will be significant for those who are prepared. The advantage goes to those who are prepared.
And back to the reason I started this dissertation - when you ask "Is state XYZ a good investment," only you can answer that question. There is no correct answer from others, as the answer is too dependent upon your personal hunting interests and your budget, both of which will change over time due to your own hunting desires and the economic situation of the times.
Sorry for the ramble. Time to start on a few tax projects and replenish the hunting budget.
Last edited:
