Straight Arrow
Well-known member
BHR, I think you completely missed HONEYBADGER's point.
Hunters Sour On Trump's Interior Secretary Over Public Lands Review
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BigHornRam
Well-known member
Honey badgers point was directed at Mark, and was a good one.
This has shown to be a slippery slope for the NRA, though. I wouldn't want to see BHA keep going own that path that has led the NRA to the 'gloom and doom' ads of late that lack substance but are heavy on trying to amplify emotions. More than a few of my gun-owning friends (including myself) have turned away from them for that reason.
This is absolutely correct and well put (of both the current state of BHA/TRCP, et al as well as the earlier days of the NRA). I hope they stay on-message and continue to first and foremost use their media outreach and advertising to educate and inspire people and make them want to advocate and participate instead of play to more basal emotions hoping for more checks (which is my opinion on the purpose of the NRA's message in recent years).
Good point.
I support driving my vehicle (fuel), using this phone (minerals), living in my house (wood), hunting and fishing... etc, etc, etc.
Complaining about domestic oil/mineral extraction yet drive, use a computer, etc is a bit... silly.
At some point when extremes feel like putting down their guns and giving negotiations a chance... we might find a valued appreciation for OUR land.
Disagree, my good friend.
As a part owner, I believe that we have a right to demand how extraction is done and what the parameters for these activities should be. The argument that if you drive a car you can't demand accountability from industry is ridiculous.
That's like me saying if you work at a toxic chemical factory, pulp mill, etc, you can't drink clean water, or if you work at a coal mine, you can't breathe clean air. The way we extract and how we regulate those activities is very much a matter for the public - especially when it comes to public land.
OriginalOscar
Active member
Double D,
Lately it seems you've had an axe to grind with BHA, what gives?
1. I don't know if Mark is an officer of UT BHA or not but a quick google search yielded no BHA Chapter Board members with the first name Mark. It begs the question of why someone with BHA doesn't weigh in and tell him to quit referencing them.
2. If you find a management plan that BHA supported that doesn't support wildlife and wildlife habitat it will be the first I've heard of it. Has BHA taken a position NM management plans need to include wildlife and habitat management?
3. Once again I'm sure a quick google search would suffice but the list is long: TRCP, Wild Sheep Foundation, Keep It Public, Trout Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever, Muley Fanatic, Boone and Crockett, RMEF, Montana Wildlife Federation, National Wildlife Federation. I am certainly missing organizations. B&C, Wild Sheep, and Wild Turkey were lambasted recently for simply expressing concern NM designations may have adverse affect on opportunities. I see nothing from BHA supporting this reasonable position.
4. Are you against keeping certain trails open to walking or horse travel only? Smoke Elser, who just earned the Legacy Award from Backcountry Horsemen of America is also a life member of BHA. My best friend got home last night from a 6 day trip into the Bob Marshall Wilderness where they brought a pack string into the Bob to repair and clean up trails. The trip was sponsored and organized by MT BHA along with the Bob Marshall Wilderness Foundation. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Support walk and ride only areas. Rather than PINT night perhaps BHA could follow lead I saw in Utah by BCHA who go out and maintain trail and lobby like adults and not just protest.
BHR, not sure if you would fall under the targeted audience.
See notations.
LuketheDog
Well-known member
Absolutely...
Now here is a rational and reasonable post.
I agree Ben, dont know how many times I hear that same argument about I love my truck, my rifle, my house, my tv, my atv etc.etc., all made with oil wood and metals mined from good old Mother Earth, so how dare I not want to drill baby drill the chit out of everything. I'm well aware where the gas to power my truck comes from; my Dad, uncle, brother, son, 1st cousin and friends all worked or work at an oil refinery, I still want and deserve clean air and water and a few relatively unspoiled wild places to hunt and fish or recreate how ever the hell I please.
I agree we need gas, wood, and minerals. However is there a shortage currently? Do we need to expand capacity? I think any reasonable person agrees that we need to drill for oil but when is enough..... well enough? I don't know the answer but a quick view of a satellite image of the west shows the magnitude of the existing drill sites.
And if I understand correctly, you can't hunt on oil leases on public land. Although i could be wrong on this. If so, please enlighten me.
And if I understand correctly, you can't hunt on oil leases on public land. Although i could be wrong on this. If so, please enlighten me.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
The TV adds are great idea and a good tool to use when trying to hold politicians accountable and a way to recognize those who champion public lands.
Accountability and recognition are the carrot and the stick of politics.
The adds do need to be careful to balance the negativity out. So not to sound like a Nra Obama piece.
My only grip with bha is the alcohol centric events but im probably in the minority on feeling that way.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
P.s. I drive a truck.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Minority status depends on what parts of ID or UT your from...
Everyone seems to go extremes around here:W:. I moderate by choice not peer pressure
Ben, you missed the next paragraph. If we managed ourselves outside ultimatum mannerisms and find ways to work with our mutual interests we might take a step forward. Until then, those opposing domestic oil, mineral and wood collection... well, silly is a subtle word for the desire to drive, live in homes and use computers, etc...
Edit: Zinke has shown interest to restrict extraction. I support this. Dont take this as extreme... I'm supportive of retaining our nation's beauty. There are ways today to log heavily wooded areas that are a complete reversal of clear cut old school... this is an example of taking actions of the past and mix with the interests of the present.Sytes said:
So long as the "ultimatum" crowd stays with guns for war... oppose oil, mineral, timber activities... it shows a selfish consideration of OUR land. OUR is not for those who only enjoy skipping rocks...
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That compromise is already underway, but it's largely being rejected by Zinke. The Sabinoso Wilderness is a prime example. His hubris went before his fall. He had to be literally shown the place, rather than accept the work of locals who put the deal together.
He has steadfastly refused to endorse projects like the Blackfoot-Clearwater Stewardship project which was literally cobbled together by ranchers, loggers, sportsmen, business owners from Seeley Lake & the broader conservation community.
The sage-grouse plans of 2015 were bi-partisan and widely applauded by western Governors (except UT, ID) as a new path forward on how we manage public lands for a variety of uses, not just oil and gas. His recommendations on alterations were lifted almost verbatim from industry's talking points.
At some point we have to realize that if we have collaborated and found common ground, moving the goalposts afterwards is just obfuscation and obstruction. And that's what is upsetting to so many about Zinke. We didn't put up with it when the litigants kept moving the goal posts on wolves, why should we put up with it when the Secretary of the Interior moves the goal posts on collaborative conservation?
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I moderate in moderation...Everyone seems to go extremes around here:W:. I moderate by choice not peer pressure
I'm the worst kind of advocate - a mercenary out for the highest bid, or whomever offers the tastiest beverage. 15 years working in public lands policy and politics in Wyoming, Montana and in D.C. I get to work with some of the most amazing individuals and organizations.. Just over 5 years owning my own consulting firm and being able to pick and choose what I get to work on has been a lot of fun.
Not only that... he's good at it too... not often is he incorrect though when he is wrong it's because he held a position not in tune with mine... otherwise he would be perfect.
Always a gent though.
