dgibson
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The only thing that we as hunters can do is attempt to illustrate what we actually are and how we really feel about game management and care.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My point exactly.
Hunter's public image.
- Thread starter Tom
- Start date
Nut
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEATHEAD:
Your right Darren. In most cases a hunter want be classed a good hunter unless he hunts and kills trophy deer.If somone kills a small deer for meat, that don't mean he's not a great hunter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Martin
I feel the same way as Darren and Meathead on the issue. To me QDM is not about getting the bucks with the BIG racks it is to more balance the herd with the proper buck to doe ratio. If it means just taking does so be it.
As for the image of hunters. We are not united is the main problem.
How can we be united if the ones that hunt one way wont support the others that hunt a different way? Even if you wouldnt even think of hunting that way then why would you take away that person's right to hunt that way? It is funny that people from other states want Ohio to stop ALL hunters from being able to use a crossbow for hunting? Then they criticize if ya state something about their state. Hypocritical if ya ask me.
Even rambling incoherent I guess.
Oh the buff. Yes I would if somebody else paid for it.
Your right Darren. In most cases a hunter want be classed a good hunter unless he hunts and kills trophy deer.If somone kills a small deer for meat, that don't mean he's not a great hunter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Martin
I feel the same way as Darren and Meathead on the issue. To me QDM is not about getting the bucks with the BIG racks it is to more balance the herd with the proper buck to doe ratio. If it means just taking does so be it.
As for the image of hunters. We are not united is the main problem.
How can we be united if the ones that hunt one way wont support the others that hunt a different way? Even if you wouldnt even think of hunting that way then why would you take away that person's right to hunt that way? It is funny that people from other states want Ohio to stop ALL hunters from being able to use a crossbow for hunting? Then they criticize if ya state something about their state. Hypocritical if ya ask me.
Even rambling incoherent I guess.
Oh the buff. Yes I would if somebody else paid for it.
Tom
New member
My thought was more like meat hunt slaughter < game shoot < hunting, not equal but included in or part of. Sometimes a hunter goes out, an animal is standing there or flys by and you shoot it, sometimes you hunt for 2 weeks and get it, sometimes you don't get the whole season. One is more like slaughtering them as they are there and you are there with a weapon, the other is more of a grueling hunt.
For example, a herd of 10,000 caribou come by where a group of hunters are in Alaska. They "slaughter" them, but its a hunt, none the less. Not a slaughter like at a slaughter house, but kill them dead easily, that kind of slaughter, that occurs in real hunts, but is not equal to hunting, just part of it.
Hey Nut, we have crossbow hunting here too, but you have to be handicapped during archery only season. During general season, crossbow is fine on deer. Its fine all year on exotics for anybody, not just handicapped.
For example, a herd of 10,000 caribou come by where a group of hunters are in Alaska. They "slaughter" them, but its a hunt, none the less. Not a slaughter like at a slaughter house, but kill them dead easily, that kind of slaughter, that occurs in real hunts, but is not equal to hunting, just part of it.
Hey Nut, we have crossbow hunting here too, but you have to be handicapped during archery only season. During general season, crossbow is fine on deer. Its fine all year on exotics for anybody, not just handicapped.
Muledeer4me
New member
"As for the image of hunters. We are not united is the main problem.
How can we be united if the ones that hunt one way wont support the others that hunt a different way? Even if you wouldnt even think of hunting that way then why would you take away that person's right to hunt that way? It is funny that people from other states want Ohio to stop ALL hunters from being able to use a crossbow for hunting? Then they criticize if ya state something about their state. Hypocritical if ya ask me."
Well put Nut.
I agree with the others about trophy hunting.
If a person decided that trophy hunting is how he wants to hunt great for him.
On the other hand not everyone needs to or cares about head gear ,there are a number of other reasons people hunt .
We should as hunters stand up for all legal hunting,because in the end those antis that are telling you its just the baiting ,or rancher,or crossbow,or whatever ,they dont like abd want stopped ,are usually just blowing smoke all they really care about is ENDING HUNTING ONE STEP AT A TIME.
Blantent in your face stuff isnt right and there are things we as hunters can do in that regard to bring a better image but I dont believe in giving the antis one thing without a fight.
How can we be united if the ones that hunt one way wont support the others that hunt a different way? Even if you wouldnt even think of hunting that way then why would you take away that person's right to hunt that way? It is funny that people from other states want Ohio to stop ALL hunters from being able to use a crossbow for hunting? Then they criticize if ya state something about their state. Hypocritical if ya ask me."
Well put Nut.
I agree with the others about trophy hunting.
If a person decided that trophy hunting is how he wants to hunt great for him.
On the other hand not everyone needs to or cares about head gear ,there are a number of other reasons people hunt .
We should as hunters stand up for all legal hunting,because in the end those antis that are telling you its just the baiting ,or rancher,or crossbow,or whatever ,they dont like abd want stopped ,are usually just blowing smoke all they really care about is ENDING HUNTING ONE STEP AT A TIME.
Blantent in your face stuff isnt right and there are things we as hunters can do in that regard to bring a better image but I dont believe in giving the antis one thing without a fight.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Tom,
I can't believe I have to explain this to you...the difference between shooting a deer and butchering a cow is that the deer is being sold as a "hunt" and the cow is only being sold for the meat. People don't pay big bucks for the experience of killing a cow. And the only reason for that is there are no bragging rights involved with the killing of a cow. If someone pays thousands of dollars to shoot a deer on a ranch in Texas (or a tame elk in Montana) they can pass the so called hunt off as a real hunt to their family and their buddies when they get home. They can put that head on their wall in hopes of impressing people. With a cow you can't go home feeling like a big macho man. I think it would be great if cattle hunts were offered to these lazy rich guys. Wouldn't it be great for the Texas economy? How about selling a trophy black angus hunt or a trophy texas longhorn hunt?
I can't believe I have to explain this to you...the difference between shooting a deer and butchering a cow is that the deer is being sold as a "hunt" and the cow is only being sold for the meat. People don't pay big bucks for the experience of killing a cow. And the only reason for that is there are no bragging rights involved with the killing of a cow. If someone pays thousands of dollars to shoot a deer on a ranch in Texas (or a tame elk in Montana) they can pass the so called hunt off as a real hunt to their family and their buddies when they get home. They can put that head on their wall in hopes of impressing people. With a cow you can't go home feeling like a big macho man. I think it would be great if cattle hunts were offered to these lazy rich guys. Wouldn't it be great for the Texas economy? How about selling a trophy black angus hunt or a trophy texas longhorn hunt?
I think it would be very cool to put one of those very big long horns on the wall with the head attached. Especially if you got him with traditional archery gear, under fair chase circumstances...I mean out in the back 100K lot where they are all but wild!!!
Elkhunter
New member
I think you need a set of them horns for the front of your truck Russ.
Tom
New member
Washington hunter, you don't have to explain that to me, I agree, to sell the angus hunt would not work, it wouldn't work here, maybe in Washington, if you want to try it. If you fall for the bragging etc. its your coice. Do you hunt to be able to brag about it and feel like a macho guy? If so, that's not your main reason is it? Why do you hunt?
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Why do I hunt? Mostly because I enjoy spending time in the mountains/woods and seeing country I would not otherwise see. I also hunt for the meat. I can't imagine having to go to the store and buy beef. But if for some reason I did not have deer and/or elk meat in my freezer, I would buy beef rather than spending thousands of dollars to shoot a tame elk.
Erik in AK
New member
What would I do to "clean" up the image of hunting?
Most of the points raised on this thread could be addressed to our advantage IMO by working on the image of the "average" hunter?
How? By raising the bar, so to speak. Make the qualifying process for getting a hunting license tougher. Mandatory hunter ed for every one with a strong emphasis on land status, public behavior and game recovery. In my model, marksmanship would be a part of the process. I would institute a Master Hunter Program along the lines of the one Washington State has (or had). I would limit many draw hunts to folks qualified under this program so as to create incentive for the hunting community to improve itself.
I realize there are arguments against this but thats my 2 cents.
MD4ME stated that unity, or the lack thereof is hurting us. While I agree in theory I don't see that ever changing because as a group, the term "hunter" encompasses a broad spectrum of demographics within our society; rich, poor, educated or not, rural, urban etc. etc. We're always saying that we need to "police our own" which I happen to agree with, but in so doing we will always find ourselves criticizing another group within the hunting community for advocating or practicing methods we feel are hurting our collective cause.
With such diversity making up our group, we all come to hunting from different backgrounds and accordingly have differing views on what is right and wrong for hunting. Most of the infighting I've witnessed within the hunting community seems driven by the tightly held belief, on both sides of whatever the the arguement is at the moment, that each side's view is the "right" one.
For instance I'm Ok with hounds and baiting but have a problem with enclosure, or "canned" or (whatever you want to call them) hunts. I like horses but am generally against 4 wheelers. I don't believe crossbows should be allowed in archery hunts. I like blackpowder but see modern in-lines as cheating. These are my opinions based on my values and I know there are hundreds if not thousands of decent ethical hunters who will disagree with me on every single point. But then again thats what websites like this are for--public dialog
So what do we do to "clean" up our image? I know only what I try to do...always be consciuous of my actions so that I don't ever become part of the problem.
Good topic, by the way
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-31-2003 11:27: Message edited by: Erik in AK ]</font>
Most of the points raised on this thread could be addressed to our advantage IMO by working on the image of the "average" hunter?
How? By raising the bar, so to speak. Make the qualifying process for getting a hunting license tougher. Mandatory hunter ed for every one with a strong emphasis on land status, public behavior and game recovery. In my model, marksmanship would be a part of the process. I would institute a Master Hunter Program along the lines of the one Washington State has (or had). I would limit many draw hunts to folks qualified under this program so as to create incentive for the hunting community to improve itself.
I realize there are arguments against this but thats my 2 cents.
MD4ME stated that unity, or the lack thereof is hurting us. While I agree in theory I don't see that ever changing because as a group, the term "hunter" encompasses a broad spectrum of demographics within our society; rich, poor, educated or not, rural, urban etc. etc. We're always saying that we need to "police our own" which I happen to agree with, but in so doing we will always find ourselves criticizing another group within the hunting community for advocating or practicing methods we feel are hurting our collective cause.
With such diversity making up our group, we all come to hunting from different backgrounds and accordingly have differing views on what is right and wrong for hunting. Most of the infighting I've witnessed within the hunting community seems driven by the tightly held belief, on both sides of whatever the the arguement is at the moment, that each side's view is the "right" one.
For instance I'm Ok with hounds and baiting but have a problem with enclosure, or "canned" or (whatever you want to call them) hunts. I like horses but am generally against 4 wheelers. I don't believe crossbows should be allowed in archery hunts. I like blackpowder but see modern in-lines as cheating. These are my opinions based on my values and I know there are hundreds if not thousands of decent ethical hunters who will disagree with me on every single point. But then again thats what websites like this are for--public dialog
So what do we do to "clean" up our image? I know only what I try to do...always be consciuous of my actions so that I don't ever become part of the problem.
Good topic, by the way
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-31-2003 11:27: Message edited by: Erik in AK ]</font>
Tom
New member
Here's the NRA hunter ethics. Pretty good, they emphasize the skill to do a humane kill but say nothing about high fence or trophy hunting.
http://www.nrahq.org/hunting/nraethics.asp
http://www.nrahq.org/hunting/nraethics.asp
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Well seriously what does the NRA know about ethical hunting? They are about gun rights and there's nothing wrong with that, but here is Boone and Crockett's Fair Chase Statement:
Hunting Ethics
Fair Chase Statement
FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging* wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.
HUNTER ETHICS
Fundamental to all hunting is the concept of conservation of natural resources. Hunting in today's world involves the regulated harvest of individual animals in a manner that conserves, protects, and perpetuates the hunted population. The hunter engages in a one-to-one relationship with the quarry and his or her hunting should be guided by a hierarchy of ethics related to hunting, which includes the following tenets:
1. Obey all applicable laws and regulations.
2. Respect the customs of the locale where the hunting occurs.
3. Exercise a personal code of behavior that reflects favorably on your abilities and sensibilities as a hunter.
4. Attain and maintain the skills necessary to make the kill as certain and quick as possible.
5. Behave in a way that will bring no dishonor to either the hunter, the hunted, or the environment.
6. Recognize that these tenets are intended to enhance the hunter's experience of the relationship between predator and prey, which is one of the most fundamental relationships of humans and their environment.
* Free-ranging as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club is any native North American big game animal that is unrestricted within its biological home range, has adequate protective cover, and reasonable opportunity to elude the hunter.
Hunting Ethics
Fair Chase Statement
FAIR CHASE STATEMENT
FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging* wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.
HUNTER ETHICS
Fundamental to all hunting is the concept of conservation of natural resources. Hunting in today's world involves the regulated harvest of individual animals in a manner that conserves, protects, and perpetuates the hunted population. The hunter engages in a one-to-one relationship with the quarry and his or her hunting should be guided by a hierarchy of ethics related to hunting, which includes the following tenets:
1. Obey all applicable laws and regulations.
2. Respect the customs of the locale where the hunting occurs.
3. Exercise a personal code of behavior that reflects favorably on your abilities and sensibilities as a hunter.
4. Attain and maintain the skills necessary to make the kill as certain and quick as possible.
5. Behave in a way that will bring no dishonor to either the hunter, the hunted, or the environment.
6. Recognize that these tenets are intended to enhance the hunter's experience of the relationship between predator and prey, which is one of the most fundamental relationships of humans and their environment.
* Free-ranging as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club is any native North American big game animal that is unrestricted within its biological home range, has adequate protective cover, and reasonable opportunity to elude the hunter.
Tom
New member
The NRA knows a lot about ethical hunting, they've had the hunting magazine for a long time.
Here's the code of ethics used for Trophy Game Records of the World, as another code.
http://www.exoticwildlifeassociation.com/0502codeethics.htm
Pope and Young has another
http://www.pope-young.org/ under the records program and then under ethics.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-31-2003 17:13: Message edited by: Tom ]</font>
Here's the code of ethics used for Trophy Game Records of the World, as another code.
http://www.exoticwildlifeassociation.com/0502codeethics.htm
Pope and Young has another
http://www.pope-young.org/ under the records program and then under ethics.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-31-2003 17:13: Message edited by: Tom ]</font>
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Tom, I get the NRA magazine "American Hunter." This is why I know they know nothing about ethics...look in the back of the magazine, you will see ads for canned trophy hunts, mostly for elk. It is easy to identify a cannned hunt...if the ad says "No License Required" or "Guaranteed Success" you can be sure it is not a real hunt. I am not going to continue my membership in the NRA because of these ads.
Tom
New member
I'll look at the adds, I disagree with your conclusion myself, but you're choice is yours. I don't like it when there is no liscense, but I know some states do it that way, guaranteed, I'm not automatically against. I think it means, if you decide not to shoot, you don't have to pay, which can be a benefit, as I see it. If there's no animal there that you like or if you can't get the one you like, you don't have to pay for it. I'll look at the adds.
Even if the NRA gets adds from places I would not hunt, I'm glad they get the money to support their efforts. Have you seen their video where English and Australian people are turning in their guns, they're being destroyed, and the people on the tape are saying they never thought it would happen? I can't imagine not supporting the NRA when I consider that.
Even if the NRA gets adds from places I would not hunt, I'm glad they get the money to support their efforts. Have you seen their video where English and Australian people are turning in their guns, they're being destroyed, and the people on the tape are saying they never thought it would happen? I can't imagine not supporting the NRA when I consider that.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Yes Tom I've seen that video. The NRA does a good job protecting our gun rights, but they don't need to be supporting canned hunting either. They should be using their money and influence to get rid of any kind of unethical hunting. But they're not. So what good are they?
Tom
New member
Ha ha ha. They're plenty good to lots of gun owners and hunters, and those hunt adds you're complaining about aren't necessarily unethical hunts, according to more than one group or association and according to more than one record book scoring system.
Do you deny that?
Do you deny that?
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