Hunter's public image.

[Tom]

I'll assume you think its ok to legally shoot an animal dead and take it home to eat and use parts you don't eat, you're a hunter.

Is there some aspect of this, you think is bad, some aspect you don't like to defend, some aspect you object too, some aspect you think hurts the hunter's public image?

What about the hunter's image do you want to clean up?

 

[Michaelr]

"GAME FARM SHOOTS", and Poaching

 

[BigHornyRam]

Going into someones pasture and shootting their cow, goat, elk, bison, whatever, is called killing or making meat. Where the animal has a reasonable chance of getting away is hunting. "High fence hunting" is not hunting. If hunters allow ourselves too be associated to canned hunts, we will not be hunting very much longer. Tsander has got it right. It is not the anti hunters opinion we need to worry about. It is the non hunters opinion of hunters we need to be concerned with.

Paul

 

[Tom]

Here's a game farm example in Kansas.

http://www.gamebirds.org/

I'm going to ask some non-hunters what they think of this place. I can't imagine what their objection would be, it sure beats eating chicken, raised in those, 10,000 chicken's per building places. Those pheasants at that place in Kansas have as good a life as the chickens most of us eat, if not better. They have a chance to get away, or do you object to this place being associated with "hunting"? I don't, I think I can defend it as above, at least here in Texas. but here its accepted to make money off of hunters.

Poaching is easy, its illegal, most places have numbers to call to put an end to it.

 

[dgibson]

I think the number one thing that causes hunters to have a bad image is our eternal fascination with trophies. We tell the ARA's that we're about conservation and tradition and so on, and by and large we are. But, every hunting show on TV is about chasing antlers. Every hunting magazine is full of trophy this and trophy that. There's article after article about how to find monster deer. Most of us believe there is a lot more to hunting than that, but to look at the popular media you wouldn't think so. How can we convince the fence-sitters that we're on the side of sanity if we give the impression that all we care about is the best trophy?

$0.02.

 

[1_pointer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I'll assume you think its ok to legally shoot an animal dead and take it home to eat and use parts you don't eat, you're a hunter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with Paul, there's a big difference between 'making meat' and hunting. Granted hunting will provide meat, but it's not the same. Should 'hunting' be partially defined as including fair-chase, where the playing field isn't totally skewed in the humans favor?

The image of hunter's will determine whether or not hunting will last to the next 100yrs. I truly believe more 'air time' must be given to the conservation efforts of hunters. This card can't be played enough. It gives us credibility with the non-hunting public that value conservation, which is a heap, big amount of people.

 

[Ithaca 37]

I'd like to clean up the image that we take and don't give back. The general public should be made much more aware of where wildlife management funds come from. They should be asked if they'd rather have the money come from their own pockets.

And then the general slob hunter image always needs cleaning up.

 

[MEATHEAD]

In my opinion QDM is not good for a hunters image. It portrays a trophy hunter, hunting merely for horns.

 

[1_pointer]

But isn't that just a result of having a healthy deer herd? Isn't the main crux of QDM to have a more balanced herd, with regards to age class structure and buck:doe ratios? PA hasn't had any QDM until recently, most bucks shot were small, young ones, and their herd has suffered.

 

[Tom]

I think the anti-s are winning, if you guys are worried about trophy hunting. Here's an argument. Suppose you could only hunt one deer, why not make it a trophy one? They often give the meat to the needy even. Killing a big old one, leaves many animals out and about, and the sport of hunting is to get the bigger one than the other guy. Trophy hunting is done, so that more animals can roam about, its an effective method of wildlife management.

What do some people think is wrong with trophy hunting?

Note: I asked a non-hunter here about the "game farm" shooting. He asked me, "what's the difference between shooting a deer and butchering a cow?" He didn't want to kill either but recognized someone has to do it, for us to eat. We were both eating meat at lunch. I answered, I think the deer probably had a better life than the cow, more free, more outdoors, more natural. I said that those that shoot the deer, are closer to nature and understanding where our food comes from.

 

[dgibson]

1_p, you're right about the goals of QDM; it's for the health of the overall herd. But, again, it's always marketed as a vehicle to bigger antlers. "If you follow QDM you'll have monster bucks! And, oh, yeah, the herd will be healthy, too."

Tom, none of us is against hunting for trophies; I'm not and I'm pretty sure Meathead isn't either. My point is that hunting is MORE than trophies, but we don't make that clear enough to the general public. We give the impression that we are all out for a set of antlers and that's it. The fact that we enjoy the food provided, the experience of being in the woods, so on and so forth is rarely mentioned and then only in passing. We always talk about hunters being the first conservationists (we were) and how we are the best bet for controlling deer herds (we are), but there's very little to that effect in the mainstream media. How many articles or shows did you see last year about shooting more does? How many of your buddies will openly admit that they shot a doe last year, or that they shot ONLY a doe? The implied attitude is that "real hunters" shoot trophies and the rest is for amateurs. That's what gives us the bad rep. I want a big buck as much as the next guy, but I'm willing to do my part for the other end, too. More people need to make that clear to the non-hunters. We're about the entire experience; a big rack is just frosting on the cake.

 

[sdgunslinger]

Just curious , what are you folk's opinions of bison "hunts" , such as on Turner's place ?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-30-2003 10:03: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]</font>

 

[dgibson]

My knee-jerk attitude is like the others...it's more like a beef slaughter than a hunt. I'd love to do it someday, tasty meat and all, but I wouldn't call it hunting. At first blush, anyway.

 

[MEATHEAD]

Your right Darren. In most cases a hunter want be classed a good hunter unless he hunts and kills trophy deer.If somone kills a small deer for meat, that don't mean he's not a great hunter.

 

[Lostagain]

I don't think hunting would be the word. When I was invited to his place for an elk hunt I didn't think the word hunting applied there either. But it makes him happy and doesn't really hurt anybody else....more power to him. I tend to agree with Buzz on these things about the hunting BS....we have too many things against sportsmen that we really can't excluded anybody except those that are real revolting, and thosse we need to get rid of. Way too much money involved and not enough time. So the market is there for people to come shoot, pay trespass fees, poach, etcetc.
Not too much different from paying a landowner to shoot his private critters than paying him and the state to shoot public critters.

 

[tmsander]

Since if A = B and B = C, then A = C, then it follows that if hunting = game farm shoots and game farm shoots = simple meat slaughter, then hunting = simple meat slaughter. I’m not sure this is Tom’s conclusion, but I hope not.

If Bubba calls up 100%-Success-Bulls-Are-Us and says he wants to kill a 380 class hawg, and 100%-Success-Bulls-Are-Us says sure, and rings up their suppliers and orders one up, and two weeks later Bubba shows up at 100%-Success-Bulls-Are-Us’ spread (just a few short days after his 380 class hawg was released), plunks down his 20-40 grand, is led out to his bull, and shoots it, I don’t think he has gained any appreciation for nature and where his meat comes from. I doubt bubba even cares about the meat.

I have on a number of occasions, and don’t appreciate, having to distinguish myself from Bubba when trying to explain hunting and why I hunt to a non-hunter, who has heard about operations like 100%-Success-Bulls-Are-Us, thinks this is what hunters think hunting is, and therefore has a pre-conceived notion that hunters have a serious character flaw.

The above scenario is what I have in mind when I talk about game farm shoots having a negative impact on legitimate hunting.

 

[danr55]

I don't think that hunters have anything to do with the image that is portrayed. The majority of the effort and money is being spent by the opposition. They will portray hunters in a manner consistant with their goals. That image will be of a careless blood thirsty killer who has no goal but to satisfy his/her bloodlust. The only thing that we as hunters can do is attempt to illustrate what we actually are and how we really feel about game management and care.

As long as there is big money to suuport the ASPCA and PETA, hunters will be in trouble. With that, combined with the money spent by the anti-gun lobby, it's a wonder that we have made it this long. The only way to combat $$ is with $$. We, as a group, are much to complacent about the fight. We are largely working class folks and we don't have the kind of $$ that organizations like SPCA and PETA can generate.

I wish I had a better feeling... but it looks like the only thing that will perpetuate hunting as a past time is some catastrophic event that brings hunting for food back to the forefront of American life or a superior effort to involve youngsters in the field. Even with that, it's getting further and further to find land that can be hunted and more and more difficult to get on that land once you find it.

 

[ELKCHSR]

I was just informed last week that one could hunt and kill any bison on turners ranch right now for a some of $500..

 

[tmsander]

Danr... I completely agree with what you just wrote. However, I do feel there are a number of specific hunting-related activities that need no 'selling' by those desirous of ending all hunting. There are just some things that cross the line to many people who othewise wouldn't care one way or the other about hunting. Game farm shoots are, I feel, one of these things. Prarie dog hunting might be another.

Other activities are borderline and a negative connotation of which can and are nudged along by intention-based anti-hunting propoganda. Such things might include bear hunting over bait and hound hunting of lions.

 

[tmsander]

ELKCHSR - does that include bulls?