Moosie
Grand poopa
Any guesses ?
RULES Below......
http://www.state.ak.us/local/akpages/FISH.GAME/wildlife/geninfo/regs/mooseid.pdf
EDIT @ 10:53 3/26/03
How Many Browtines ?
- Thread starter Moosie
- Start date
Any guesses ?
RULES Below......
http://www.state.ak.us/local/akpages/FISH.GAME/wildlife/geninfo/regs/mooseid.pdf
EDIT @ 10:53 3/26/03
Moosie
Grand poopa
SEE... I'm guessing that there is NO Browtines on it..... I Can't tell if that's ONE continuos Palm or broken into a palm and a spoon....
Any Experts want to weigh in ?
Any Experts want to weigh in ?
JoseCuervo
New member
Moosie,
Just hope he is 50" wide, or the other side is more "normal".
My first look said he has about 8 brow tines, based on the points toward the front, after the narrow spot on his antlers. The narrow spot is just below that longest tine, I think.
But, some of those brow tines won't count as points, as they are wider than they are long.
It looks like if you removed that one point, with a well placed shot, he would have a nice narrow spot, clearly separating the brow from the upper part.
Now you know why we went to an area without a brow tine limit on our last trip to AK. And all we shot was one dink with mama's milk on his muzzle.
Just hope he is 50" wide, or the other side is more "normal".
My first look said he has about 8 brow tines, based on the points toward the front, after the narrow spot on his antlers. The narrow spot is just below that longest tine, I think.
But, some of those brow tines won't count as points, as they are wider than they are long.
It looks like if you removed that one point, with a well placed shot, he would have a nice narrow spot, clearly separating the brow from the upper part.
Now you know why we went to an area without a brow tine limit on our last trip to AK. And all we shot was one dink with mama's milk on his muzzle.
The one long tine on the same side of the main beam is a brow tine. It's hard to tell about the points that are resting on the snow, but there might be more measurable points there too. Anywhere below the main beam where there's a measurable point (defined in the definition pdf) is a brow tine.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-25-2003 10:03: Message edited by: Alasken ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-25-2003 10:03: Message edited by: Alasken ]</font>
Oh, I see. So you can just draw a straight line out from the bottom edge of the main beam, and everything below that line is a brow tine? In that case, the one that appears to be between the main palm and the brow palm would not be a brow tine. But it looks like the next one below it is long enough without being too wide. Also the very first point. So, two at least, and those others are too close to call from that angle.
Oak
Oak
Moosie
Grand poopa
My understanding from the Video from AK fish and Game that the points between the palm and the main spoon aren't counted as a point on the Tine... Even if below the main beam... true or not ?
WOW, this is a good one, BUT, looking at the size of the rack I'm guesing he'll go 50" if the other side is close to Simetrical.
I just talked to AK fish and Game and will be getting a response today, They were most helpfull.... I sent them this link.
WOW, this is a good one, BUT, looking at the size of the rack I'm guesing he'll go 50" if the other side is close to Simetrical.
I just talked to AK fish and Game and will be getting a response today, They were most helpfull.... I sent them this link.
Moosie
Grand poopa
HEre is a reply from High Adventure " http://www.alaska.net/~haac/ "
Hi Oscar,
As always, good to hear from you. It's a good question on this moose and always good to do the homework. From the video, you know the general rule of thumb is "don't shoot unless you're sure" more accurately said is "better safe than sorry". Also, it is very difficult to accurately judge a moose by just looking at a picture. This one is difficult because you're looking "head on" at the brow palms and thus cannot get a definite on length versus width of all the brow tines. There is a "mid bay" point that it would be safer to disregard as it is not truly and definetely a brow tine. Additionaly it is difficult to accurately estimate the full spread without seeing the antler attached to the skull (usually about 10" across the eyesockets). All that said, this appears to be legal as there "seems" to be at least four legitimate brow tines on the antler. However, I personally would not shoot this bull without either being able to estimate overall spread via the approx. skull measurement and/or being able to see all the brow tines either from the top or bottom (head raised or lowered. It is a shame to pass on a nice bull, but more of a shame to get one down that on closer examination is spelled trouble. This antler is more difficult to evaluate because it has the kind of palms that tend to blend from brow palm to main palm without the more definite "wide bay" between them. Anyway, looks like a shooter, but would want to see it on a bull and from more direction than the picture alone allows.
Hi Oscar,
As always, good to hear from you. It's a good question on this moose and always good to do the homework. From the video, you know the general rule of thumb is "don't shoot unless you're sure" more accurately said is "better safe than sorry". Also, it is very difficult to accurately judge a moose by just looking at a picture. This one is difficult because you're looking "head on" at the brow palms and thus cannot get a definite on length versus width of all the brow tines. There is a "mid bay" point that it would be safer to disregard as it is not truly and definetely a brow tine. Additionaly it is difficult to accurately estimate the full spread without seeing the antler attached to the skull (usually about 10" across the eyesockets). All that said, this appears to be legal as there "seems" to be at least four legitimate brow tines on the antler. However, I personally would not shoot this bull without either being able to estimate overall spread via the approx. skull measurement and/or being able to see all the brow tines either from the top or bottom (head raised or lowered. It is a shame to pass on a nice bull, but more of a shame to get one down that on closer examination is spelled trouble. This antler is more difficult to evaluate because it has the kind of palms that tend to blend from brow palm to main palm without the more definite "wide bay" between them. Anyway, looks like a shooter, but would want to see it on a bull and from more direction than the picture alone allows.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>My understanding from the Video from AK fish and Game that the points between the palm and the main spoon aren't counted as a point on the Tine... Even if below the main beam... true or not ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now I'm confused!
Now I'm confused!
Moosie
Grand poopa
KEN, you're right, that was confusing, Helps if I'd explain myself.. sorry
To me it looked like there wasn't a seperate "BAY" between the MAIN Palm and the TINE palm. Looked like it was all a continuous MAIN palm therefore not having and brow tines, or a Seperate brow PALM.
MY question was :
1. Is there a seperate brow Palm with Tines on it, and if so,were does that PALM begin.
If everything lower then the 3" point sticking out below the other tines is considered the Brow PALM, then there is Enough TINES for it to be legal in a 4-min brow tine area. I just wasn't sure about the browtines....
OK, did that make sense now ?!?!?
To me it looked like there wasn't a seperate "BAY" between the MAIN Palm and the TINE palm. Looked like it was all a continuous MAIN palm therefore not having and brow tines, or a Seperate brow PALM.
MY question was :
1. Is there a seperate brow Palm with Tines on it, and if so,were does that PALM begin.
If everything lower then the 3" point sticking out below the other tines is considered the Brow PALM, then there is Enough TINES for it to be legal in a 4-min brow tine area. I just wasn't sure about the browtines....
OK, did that make sense now ?!?!?
Moosie
Grand poopa
Here is a response from:
Doug Larsen, Assistant Director F&G
From the photo, I can only confirm a single brow tine. However, the series of small "bumps" along the leading edge of the brow palm may include "points," or "tines," provided they are at least an inch long and longer than they are wide, with the width measured one inch or more from the tip. From the photo, I'd be surprised if any of these qualify as points. -- Doug
~~~~~~~~~
I actually wrote him back again and will post that response too, I probably sound like a dork to him, but just making sure
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
After sending him that picture of the blown up version I stuck in the First post, Here was his Response :
"Oscar -- The close-up photo you provided helps me to better see the various points and bumps. Details about moose antlers, with their palms and brow tine descriptions can be found on page 29 of Alaska's 2002-2003 hunting regulation book (No. 43). The brow palm of the antler in the photo appears to have 3
points: the long one to the left, the shorter one immediately adjacent to the long one, and a third projecting off to the right just behind the series of "bumps." The single point projecting to the right just above the third point is up and away from the brow palm proper and therefore wouldn't be considered a point on the palm, although it would get counted as a point on the antlers overall score (for record book consideration)."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To me, this has been a tough one... BUT I'm still sticking to it would be the 50" required
Doug Larsen, Assistant Director F&G
From the photo, I can only confirm a single brow tine. However, the series of small "bumps" along the leading edge of the brow palm may include "points," or "tines," provided they are at least an inch long and longer than they are wide, with the width measured one inch or more from the tip. From the photo, I'd be surprised if any of these qualify as points. -- Doug
~~~~~~~~~
I actually wrote him back again and will post that response too, I probably sound like a dork to him, but just making sure
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
After sending him that picture of the blown up version I stuck in the First post, Here was his Response :
"Oscar -- The close-up photo you provided helps me to better see the various points and bumps. Details about moose antlers, with their palms and brow tine descriptions can be found on page 29 of Alaska's 2002-2003 hunting regulation book (No. 43). The brow palm of the antler in the photo appears to have 3
points: the long one to the left, the shorter one immediately adjacent to the long one, and a third projecting off to the right just behind the series of "bumps." The single point projecting to the right just above the third point is up and away from the brow palm proper and therefore wouldn't be considered a point on the palm, although it would get counted as a point on the antlers overall score (for record book consideration)."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To me, this has been a tough one... BUT I'm still sticking to it would be the 50" required
It's all clear as mud now Moosie.
I think the second reply from Doug makes sense. I would have to agree. You've already seen this picture, but how many brow tines does the left antler on this bull have? The right one is too hard to tell from the angle, but I've gotten two answers from experts on this one.
Moosie
Grand poopa
First off, Thats a 54.5" moose so It's legal, Second off, I'd sa ythe Left has 2 legal points and the Right has 2 aswell....
YOU can jsut give me the PRIZE money now
(Actually If I'd guess the Spread is more like 58 1/2
)
EDITED PART
YAH, I did see that picture before, Wasn't it in the BIG GAME section under a story or spomething, POST the link again so I can Re-read it, I suffer from CRS !!!! so I don't know where it was)
YOU can jsut give me the PRIZE money now
(Actually If I'd guess the Spread is more like 58 1/2
EDITED PART
Well, I can't find where I posted this before either. CRFS
It is a 54.5" bull my son and I got last September, and was taken in a four brow tine area. We didn't count the brow tines, but knew he was legal. All three of the points below the main beams are brow tines though. The problem is there isn't always a wide "bay" between the main palm and the brow palm, but all three of the points in that pic are below the main beam and pointing forward.
Moosie
Grand poopa
THANX Ken.. I gues I should have stuck with my first guess.. It was right on the Money.. I actually cheated and put a scale to the Screen and estimated the 10" head sred and then figures the 58.5" ... But like you, I new it was over 50
THANX for the pictures !!!!
THANX for the pictures !!!!
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