Horses in elk country

[Buckskinbob]

Well this weekend I learned that my donkey would rather just walk ahead of me than be led.

I also learned that if you have to stop to pick your hat off of the ground you better not let go of your horse or you will be walking!!

Oh and horses can make it a very long ways in hobbles. Like some of you already told me. We had to find out for ourselves I guess.

 

[squirrel]

Stock can make your trip: can make it pleasant or miserable, sometimes its the quality of the stock, and sometimes it is the quality of their handlers.

No doubt it can be a combination of the two also.

That little donkey is quite adorable BTW.

There is a lot of truth to MM's take on the best stock, (and the best boat, the best trailer, the best pretty girlfriend etc). SOMEONE ELSE'S.

Any critter that is carrying what otherwise would be on my back is a GREAT PACK ANIMAL... be it dog, goat, donkey, camel, llama, mule, horse, or zebra.

Pack dogs are great for burger, but you've gotta double bag it or it may taste like a beaver pond after a few squirrel chases makes their tongue hang out.

Now I feed so many wooly guys that the dogs live a pretty load free life.

 

[Buckskinbob]

View attachment 298990Stock can make your trip: can make it pleasant or miserable, sometimes its the quality of the stock, and sometimes it is the quality of their handlers.

No doubt it can be a combination of the two also.

That little donkey is quite adorable BTW.

There is a lot of truth to MM's take on the best stock, (and the best boat, the best trailer, the best pretty girlfriend etc). SOMEONE ELSE'S.

Any critter that is carrying what otherwise would be on my back is a GREAT PACK ANIMAL... be it dog, goat, donkey, camel, llama, mule, horse, or zebra.

Pack dogs are great for burger, but you've gotta double bag it or it may taste like a beaver pond after a few squirrel chases makes their tongue hang out.

Now I feed so many wooly guys that the dogs live a pretty load free life.
View attachment 298989

Dang, now I need to get a pack for my gfs dog, maybe that would slow her down a bit

 

[WYOMULE]

I'm hoping to start a thread where you horse savvy elk hunters will give tips and tricks to using horses for hunting elk.

I've had a crash course in using horses in the backcountry this year and I know I'm not being as efficient or effective as I could be.

We've had a few wrecks and a few things a pro probably could have avoided easily, but like they say, experience is what you get right after you need it!

How do you guys make it worth it to take stock with you? I know they make more work and there is no way around that, but how do you do it effectively.

Are you hunting from the back of your ride or are you just using them to pack in and hunting from foot?

Do you pack in the whole deal, (canvas tent, stove, real food, bedroles) or do you pack light like you are back packing?

Do you prefer a highline, or picket, or electric fence? Hobbles? We have been highlining two while leaving the third loose, and rotating them. Is that a big risk? Or can you rely on the third horse to stick around always?

Is there always a wreck when dealing with horses? Or does it ever go smoothly?!?!

Do any of you use burros or mules? Do you ride them or just walk them while they carry all the gear?

I dont expect all my questions to cover everything, im really just looking for your collective wisdom on everything that is involved in using stock in the backcountry.

yes the horses are in the care of someone who is experienced with horses and has the means to do it, im fairly experienced in the back country but we have had a few hard lessons trying to bring our capabilities together for this purpose.

Also the more pics the better!

thanks in advance!!View attachment 291032

 

[WYOMULE]

I grew up on a ranch and hunting with horses, mostly on private land and I also packed with my buddies all over as a teenager until about 10 years ago. I recently started hunting elk an area about 15-20 miles back in some really rough boulder Wyoming Wilderness country that is awesome. I had packed and hunted there extensively about 15 years ago.


The 1st thing I did was get pack mules. They don't need shoes. They tiptoe through everything and the boulders like its nothing. They pack anything. I love them because they are smart, trail easily, and don't panic when they get on the wrong side of a tree on the trail. They require a different kind of patience than horses and won't go into the nastiest blown down steep stuff that you can work a horse through to get a downed elk for example.

For riding I have been renting trail horses and I take a lot of beginners. I usually ask for one that can do more than just trail and then the others for everyone else. The 1 I got this year for me I wish I could buy. I'd pay 10K for him any day. He is calm as hell, will stand to glass, not fazed by anything, and reins and lopes to boot like a cow horse. I have probably put 150 miles on him just bringing people in and out and hunting from the trailhead now that its too late for high camp.

Where we hunt would be an absolute nightmare for a guy packing an elk out without stock. I know one guy that does it part of the way in. I felt bad for him and gave him my mule last year. He had already packed a cow out this year before I saw him that night.

As far as getting into stock and hunting with horses my first initial impression was why does anyone hunt wilderness on foot and why does anyone shoot an elk back there without stock? There is nothing better than hunting off of horses and having a backcountry camp and that is before you shoot an elk.

I think I understand now. Even with the docile trail/follow horses that we rent the guys I take without experience struggle. Everything from saddling, bridling, hobbling, proper feed, and even simple things like how to tie a horse off the trail are a huge learning curve for newbies. Most of these guys are nervous and we have had a few little wrecks over silly things like not anticipating when an animal might jump a log.

I have one really good buddy who had some experience and is a fast learner and is now the pack tie down guy and better than me at the box and diamond hitches and ensuring we get everything packed right. The first year we had more than our share of issues. We are now pretty efficient and this year I made a set up trip before hand so the actual pack in was really good.

For someone starting I would start out really slow but you have crossed the Rubicon already. I would tell people to start by renting a couple good horses with tack (pm me). Take some time with them. The horse rentals are way more economical because you only have to feed them for 3 months, they come shod (and their farrier is awesome where I get mine). Only had one horse lose shoes in the worst country for it in two years). The rented horses are really good for beginners because they have spent the prior 3 months with newbies and city types on the same trails doing fishing trips and dude ranch rides.

Get a used sawbuck and a good set of pannards and learn how to weigh and pack and learn some basic diamonds and boxes. Also get a cheap set of meat saddle panniards because you want to be able to utilize your saddle too. Always weigh your packs for evenness and tie down everything on top with canvas and solid box/diamond hitches. If you don't it will be pure misery getting an animal in 5 miles let alone 20. Practice leading one horse or mule in a year or 2 before you try a pack string.

I absolute love the way I hunt and could never do it any other way. I was mystified for a long time as to why anyone would want to use llamas and goats when mules carry 4-5 times as much. I never understood how it even crossed a person's mind to try to pack out meat on their backs when you can usually lead a horse to almost anything you can get to or pretty damn close.

That said I realize now that horses and mules are a steep, difficult, scary, and even more dangerous (than are naturally) learning curve for people that didn't grow up that way. It is an awesome way to hunt and camp in backcountry and transforms everything but be prepared to take it slow. I would go with a friend who has done it his whole life a few times first and gradually work into it.

Specifically:

1. You have already taken the plunge. Just learn from your mistakes and keep at it. Horses may not be worth it initially for a newbie but you've probably already learned a 100 important lessons the hard way.
2. Hunting off your horse depends on the terrain and your preference. Where I hunt you have to stay on trails because of a 1000 year blowdown and even thats' sketchy but it is good during the rut. I like to ride early and bugle and tie up the horses as soon as I get responses. I tie them high and tight and loosen the saddle because I could be off chasing elk for hours at that point. Its just preference and where you hunt. We have elk right out of camp too in any direction but if you need to get to a particular area or can cover the country you need to, of course take them.
After the rut and September camp, hunting from the trailhead its the only way to hunt. You want to cover country, find places to glass, look for tracks and then haul your elk out. Imagine doing all that on foot and shooting an elk and having to come back for your horse to haul it out. Makes zero sense. They are also so damn comfortable if you get on you can trust with the right gait and a really good high back saddle.
Practice from the get go in never touching the saddle horn no matter what. Balance yourself backward when going down, forward up, practice moving with the horse (you can never do that with your hand on the horn). Keep your heels down in the stirrups. Take your feet out now and then to better practice balance in steep terrain. Practice neck reining even if your horse just plows. Make your horse do more than just follow to get practice. Soon with the right saddle you can just relax and enjoy life and your horse will enjoy you a whole lot more too and not want to try and knock you off by wandering under a low branch. Don't let your horse eat and be in charge from the get go. Horses really do sense fear and nerves and those trail horses know exactly how to take advantage of someone who will let them.

3. Hobble and electric fence. Set them up during the day and make sure your horses understand them before you go and you are golden. Mules and some horses can move just as good in hobbles so don't count on that. No fun trailing your horses down to the trailhead and having to ride back 10 miles bareback. Been there. Done that.

4. No horses aren't always a wreck. You will get better fast. Yes there are always little things but they don't always become wrecks as you learn. Yes you will have occasional fun wrecks and rodeos. Just laugh. Pick up the pieces, check to see if your body parts are all accounted for, and learn from it. Its just inevitable even with the most experienced packers and riders. Stock will be stock. Relax and be conscientious but confident and things will go better.

5. As to walking in with donkeys or mules. I am a relative mule newbie but my experience with horses made the transition pretty easy. Horses you have to show who's boss and recognize when there is a genuine fear issue, health, injury, or energy issue vs. taking advantage of you. Mules and donkeys have to trust you and they won't do anything when confused or if they don't trust the terrain or situation. It takes patience. I don't like leading my mules on foot that much and definitely prefer to string them off my horse. The reason being is when they do occasionally stop (going up the trail at a bad spot to to think and sometimes just to take a rest) I can dally up and put the steady pressure on them with my horse instead of having to use all my weight and energy holding pulling on them until they decide to move. Eventually they will see that as the smartest move and come along but they can be stubborn. If they don't its usually an issue with the pack rubbing them wrong or something out of balance I can easily fix. It gets better with them as I have become a better packer and we have put on the miles. If it comes down between leading them on foot or packing it myself though its a no brainer.

Get good tack. Quality pannards. Packs with big O rings and good cinches. Big wide breast collars. If you pack a good roping or ranch saddle to dally and pull a stubborn animal. Get high quality pack and riding pads. Don't get a padded or so called trail saddle. Get a high backed one piece hard seat from a quality manufacturer and learn to ride it. So much more comfortable in the long run. Don't put a big pack on your back to ride long distances. Use your saddle bags and pack animals instead. They will only mess with your balance and make the horse's life much harder navigating nasty trails.

 

[Westelker]

In 2014 my wife and I hunted with an outfitter for a week. Camp was at the end of a FS road where horses were corralled. So, outhouse, tents (sleeping & eating) and tack tent were all set up .... all previously hauled in by truck/trailer. At dark each morning, after wrangler fed and saddled the horses, we rode out of camp for a few miles, tied the horses to a tree, saddles remained on and we hunted from there on foot. Returned to camp each evening in dark, wrangler unsaddled the horses, fed and corralled them. During each day we walked some, not too far, but we were tired and glad we didn't have to deal with the horses. Riding a different horse each day, I thought each one had a little trouble negotiating the trails, always banging their hooves on rocks or tree roots. My wife thought the same. Third day, leaving camp, my horse slipped on a "sheet" of ice and all four legs went hortizontal. Fortunately, the horse was ok and was put back in the corral. I was then put on a mule, it was like night and day. Sure footed and walked the trails purposely. After a successful harvest of a nice 6x it took an additional two horses to pack the meat back to camp. So, between the wrangler, my wife and myself, we had five horses saddled returning to camp in the dark. I like horses and I think they are great for getting one beyond where one can reasonably walk-in an hour or two, but they seem to be a lot of work with a lot of planning involved. I'll hunt with a mule any day as long as someone else does all the related work.

 

[WYOMULE]

There is a guy from Penna that did a video about 5 friends/people he knew that were very experienced riders that came to tragic ends. All 5 were killed in some type of never anticipated accident. You should try to find that video and watch it carefully. Shtz can happen, no matter what you do.

Now why in the hell would you want to think about that…lol. I tell my kids if I live to the point that I’m useless and before my memory is too shot to do it I am getting on my horse and disappearing into the winds for the wolves and crows. Is there a better way to go than that.

 

[WYOMULE]

And there are plenty of places a horse can't go! If a horse can't get an elk out of there, an idiot with a backpack has no business hunting the area.

I beg to differ. I have gotten my horse to some places my buddies were crying about to get an elk. Just patience and a good horse. Like my grandpa used to say when we got worried about where he was going in the steep stuff “Well he’s a hell of a lot steadier on his feet in this crap than I am”

Yeah you can’t always get them all the way but never has a time I haven’t gotten within 50 yards and the winds are as rough and blow down as it gets. It takes time and patience and nerves but it beats the hell out of packing it yourself.

I hunt as hard as anyone but I am in awe of anyone crazy enough to shoot an elk in the backcountry without a horse handy.

It’s different though. I grew up with horses. We always packed them for the love of it hunting, fishing, or camping. It pure nostalgia for me.

I will freely admit that i

 

[Lilhowie83]

Now why in the hell would you want to think about that…lol. I tell my kids if I live to the point that I’m useless and before my memory is too shot to do it I am getting on my horse and disappearing into the winds for the wolves and crows. Is there a better way to go than that.

I often tell my wife that's how I'm going to go out of this world too! She doesn't like it when I say it though.

 

[Wildcat77]

All I know is one person gets to hunt and the other watches the horses.
Then you switch.
Otherwise they twist off and bolt for the trailhead, hobbled or not.

Ok...horses should be trained to stand tied for hours!

 

[Elkmagnet]

Ok...horses should be trained to stand tied for hours!

Ours routinely stand 24hrs a day on a hunt they are tied for up to fourteen hours un supervised with us being as far away from them as we can hike in that time.
Tie them high when away and low enough to eat at night.

 

[Justindrader]

I beg to differ. I have gotten my horse to some places my buddies were crying about to get an elk. Just patience and a good horse. Like my grandpa used to say when we got worried about where he was going in the steep stuff “Well he’s a hell of a lot steadier on his feet in this crap than I am”

Yeah you can’t always get them all the way but never has a time I haven’t gotten within 50 yards and the winds are as rough and blow down as it gets. It takes time and patience and nerves but it beats the hell out of packing it yourself.

I hunt as hard as anyone but I am in awe of anyone crazy enough to shoot an elk in the backcountry without a horse handy.

It’s different though. I grew up with horses. We always packed them for the love of it hunting, fishing, or camping. It pure nostalgia for me.

I will freely admit that i

We just got out of an outfitted wilderness hunt using horses with the same brand. All good stout mountain horses compared to our smaller ranch horses.

 

[millerkiller77]

Ours routinely stand 24hrs a day on a hunt they are tied for up to fourteen hours un supervised with us being as far away from them as we can hike in that time.
Tie them high when away and low enough to eat at night.View attachment 344658View attachment 344659View attachment 344660View attachment 344662

Do you find tying them in camp seperated vs 3-4 on a highline works out better? I always highline mine in camp for convenience, but every once in a while they don't like to be " good neighbors " and I have to set up multiple highlines

 

[Wildcat77]

To answer a few I pack what I need if it's a long stay with canvas tent and stove it takes an extra horse or a second trip. No there's not always a wreck it actually doesn't happen very often at all. You just need more experience for you and your stock. I use the horses to get camp in and out sometimes I will ride em out on the dark a few miles and tie them up for the day. All my hunting is done on foot and I try to keep em at least a quarter mile away from where I expect to start hunting. Again experience and time will help here. Same for packing game out and no matter what some may say it takes 2 horses to pack a quartered bull elk.

The man I bought my horses from ...did not tell me this but the guy I bought my horse trailer from told me..At 70 years plus something...he goes out at night with dogs...pitch black and hunts raccoons with dogs. He told me had not hunted with him in years because he said it was crazy scary...not being able to see where your going. Up steep hills full of trees!
Then he added that he has some good horses.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Do you find tying them in camp seperated vs 3-4 on a highline works out better? I always highline mine in camp for convenience, but every once in a while they don't like to be " good neighbors " and I have to set up multiple highlines

Honestly this is a mixed string of mine and my hunt partners so we keep them separated when not supervised. We don't need to establish pecking order during our hunt.

 

[Wildcat77]

I'd say a good reason to use horses that have already established an order.

 

[Wildcat77]

I'd say a good reason to use horses that have already established an order.

 

[Rafter23]

Bumping this. How's everyone making out with the ponies this season?