D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
I was figuring that a mini would weigh around 250 and therefore pack say ~80 or approx ~30% of it's weight... do you think this is off?
Horse, llama, goat pack animals
- Thread starter Sytes
- Start date
I was figuring that a mini would weigh around 250 and therefore pack say ~80 or approx ~30% of it's weight... do you think this is off?
Kharper
Active member
I'm trying the goat route. No experience packing them yet as they are still too young, but they are willing hikers and followers. Llamas are not very affordable in my area and horses take more room than I have. No bighorns where I live so that isn't an issue, sure hoping they can help pack hunting and fishing camps in a few miles and deer, hogs and bears back out!
Attachments
Last edited:
TwistedSage
Well-known member
Sounds like your right on the mark. At first I was thinking the minis would be closer to 100 150ish but after checking it out they average 200-450. There are some minis around here that I would call a toy version that seem to bread for sale as pets only. Then there are quite a few that seem to be about that 300 lb range that you see as pint size guardian donkey's and they look more than capable of hauling 60-80 lbs. You may be on to something here.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
That’s what I like to here!
R
rwc101
Guest
I don't know anything about goats or donkeys, but having Bolivian relatives I can say llamas don't taste too bad. Useful if you leave a tag unpunched.
BrentD
Well-known member
Have you tried Clicker training? My wife can do amazing things with a pocket of celery or carrot pieces and just clucking her tongue.
TwistedSage
Well-known member
She will come up to me just for the attention and I can lift her head and her legs and muscle her around a bit of course food keeps her close when I'm being a bother. It's when that bridle/rope comes out that she becomes a different donkey. I've even had it in the feed bucket so she couldn't see me approaching with it, when she saw it at arms length she bolted and looked at me like like I betrayed the trust, wouldn't come around for about a week. I've gone through that scenario about 4 times before I said it's not gonna happen. After reading Neffas post I think i owe it another go in a makeshift catch pen where she cant get away and see where that goes. Although at this point she is doing her job with the sheep perfectly and I realize if I wanted a pack animal it would have to be a dedicated pack/work animal.
BrentD
Well-known member
I'd bet a case of beer, I could clicker train her do whatever I wanted. I'm not horse whisperer, but it's not hard. My wife could get her to paint pictures for you. But the rope and bridle would not be where she would start. Operant conditioning, done right, will work every time. Patience is golden, of course.
TwistedSage
Well-known member
I'd skip the bet and buy the beer just to watch and learn. Have you any recommendations on reading material for operant conditioning? Per my earlier mentioned inexperience I've just heard and assumed bridle training is where you start. I'm sure in that I'm taking for granted all of the smaller steps folks take to get to that point.
BrentD
Well-known member
Twisted. I wish you lived down the road. Be fun to see your donk and see what could be done. For sure, however, being a smarter than average equid, once she knows what clicker training is all about she will learn super fast. But to start, you gotta go slow. SSSSLLLOOOWWWW. Like that.
If you google for operant learning, you will probably get behavior and psychology textbooks, but look for clicker training and you will find what you need. My wife really likes the training books and videos put together by this woman
they are quite good, but the trick is that you need to know how to do it first. We don't use the handheld clicker but just click with our tongues at the very instant that the horse does something we want. Often it does it by accident, like moving it's head. But having done it once or twice by accident, and knowing that a click is ALWAYS followed by a reward, then she will try it again and suddenly she has begun to learn that you want something and she can do it. Starting slow it something like lowering her head or touching your hand is a good way to start.
Once you get the paradigm established then hang a halter on a gate 50 ft away and go stand with her. If she takes a step towards the gate, click. Might take a while and a lot of time might be spent going the wrong way, but it's that process of getting her trust and it will go much faster as she learns and trusts you. As with dogs, keep the training sessions frequent but short.
Anyway, it's pretty fun and if we can teach a horse anything, anyone can, but my wife is better at it than most - because she is patient like I can never be.
Like I said, you can teach a smart horse to paint a picture.
If you google for operant learning, you will probably get behavior and psychology textbooks, but look for clicker training and you will find what you need. My wife really likes the training books and videos put together by this woman
Clicker Training for Your Horse: Alexandra Kurland: 9781890948351: Amazon.com: Books
Clicker Training for Your Horse [Alexandra Kurland] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Clicker Training for Your Horse
www.amazon.com
they are quite good, but the trick is that you need to know how to do it first. We don't use the handheld clicker but just click with our tongues at the very instant that the horse does something we want. Often it does it by accident, like moving it's head. But having done it once or twice by accident, and knowing that a click is ALWAYS followed by a reward, then she will try it again and suddenly she has begun to learn that you want something and she can do it. Starting slow it something like lowering her head or touching your hand is a good way to start.
Once you get the paradigm established then hang a halter on a gate 50 ft away and go stand with her. If she takes a step towards the gate, click. Might take a while and a lot of time might be spent going the wrong way, but it's that process of getting her trust and it will go much faster as she learns and trusts you. As with dogs, keep the training sessions frequent but short.
Anyway, it's pretty fun and if we can teach a horse anything, anyone can, but my wife is better at it than most - because she is patient like I can never be.
Like I said, you can teach a smart horse to paint a picture.
Attachments
OverlordBear
Well-known member
Has anyone thought about using bacterian camels from the gobi desert.
I think that would be super cool and it would be like a mobile tree stand.
TwistedSage
Well-known member
Well I'll be damned @BrentD, made some huge progress in the last day and a half. Thank you for the links. Two sessions of establishing the positive reinforcement with clicking and then handling more and more close in.
First session today more of the same then bringing in the halter right at the end dropping it on the ground and walking up to her for some more hands on ended with going over the the halter and having her walk up to me standing over it with a click and some treats. Went out again and was able to throw it over my shoulder and have her walk up to me but anything I went to grab it she'd circle away and stand off.
Went out one more time and I think it all really started to click. Got the halter on and went for a short stroll. When I took it off she got a handful of treats instead of the bites while clicking and ended it. I hope next time shell just be excited to see it.
First session today more of the same then bringing in the halter right at the end dropping it on the ground and walking up to her for some more hands on ended with going over the the halter and having her walk up to me standing over it with a click and some treats. Went out again and was able to throw it over my shoulder and have her walk up to me but anything I went to grab it she'd circle away and stand off.
Went out one more time and I think it all really started to click. Got the halter on and went for a short stroll. When I took it off she got a handful of treats instead of the bites while clicking and ended it. I hope next time shell just be excited to see it.
Attachments
BrentD
Well-known member
That is so perfect! Ending on a jackpot like that will be remembered. This makes my day, and my wife's too. She is really into it. Your donk will be a great pal and you will be able do anything eventually. The more they learn, the more they want to learn and the faster they learn it. The books will help with complex things and show you how to break things down into small steps, but you have already mastered that it appears. Congratulations! With a little practice you could have a hunting tag-along pack burro. That would be pretty slick.
I just gave one of our horses a 2 oz syringe of some medicinal herbs and with the clicker training he starts drooling when he seem me pull out the syringe, because he knows what to do.
You could clicker train those cats too
. The wife even clicker trains her ducks.
I just gave one of our horses a 2 oz syringe of some medicinal herbs and with the clicker training he starts drooling when he seem me pull out the syringe, because he knows what to do.
You could clicker train those cats too
. The wife even clicker trains her ducks.
BrentD
Well-known member
This picture was from training Rusty to carry meat. This is a boned out mule deer that he had no problem with. He will never do this for real, but he certainly could if a certain blond would trust me to take him. This took about 10 minutes, and it as the first time he had ever had a bag of meat on his back.
Attachments
BrentD
Well-known member
Rusty is a pretty curious horse. And he knew he was playing a game. If you look at the mat he is standing on, he associates that with training and doing whatever we ask. It's pretty fun to watch him get all wound up knowing it is training time when that comes out. Our other haflinger at the time would take much more work to get that point.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
@BrentD you've got me feeling a lot better about trying a burro.
BrentD
Well-known member
Hey! Don't blame me!!!
If you do not have livestock you should know that horses (and by extension, burros, llamas and so forth) are not just livestock. They are LIFESTYLES!
Someone told me this. I heard, it I considered it, and I never understood it until I was in it.
Just so you know.
PS. I am not an expert on anything with odd numbered toes.
You could clicker train those cats too
Perhaps it is time to evaluate how she has “clicker” trained YOU good professor!?!?
