Hiring

[belshawelk]

Crap I just wish I could get someone to apply!

 

[Bob-WY]

As a current stay at home dad for 4+ years, the hole left in my resume has got me even more nervous now.

As one who would look for gaps, I'd simply ask you about it. You have a very good reason, not an issue, we move on, especially in my field (software) if your reason included how you stayed up to date technically, but not a deal breaker for me.

There are not so good reasons for a gap, kept getting fired, prison etc.

There are very good reasons: parenting, school etc.

 

[ChrisC]

Chris,

In the quote above, you noted there has been some bad luck in the past. Can you elaborate?

I've been in on the hiring process of entry level folks and up through executive level folks. In this process, I have found the employer must have a clear understanding of what they want in the person filling the position . . . like what they REALLY WANT. Do you want a hard-charging-self-starter? If so, can you handle the attitude most hard-charging-self-starters possess?

For instance, I was helping in on the interviewing process for an entry level position and one of the managers said, "I'd like to find someone without too much motivation as I don't want them looking for another job in the near future." Spoiler alert - the manager made a hiring decision on an individual who lacked motivation . . . this individual also lacked the motivation to show up to work after about the third week. Sometimes we get exactly what we ask for.

My tips for looking at a candidate:
1) How do they fit on the team?
2) Are they motivated?
3) Are they qualified?
4) Will they raise the tide of the company or lower it? (A rising tide lifts all boats.)
5) What are they really worth, in terms of compensation? Then, give them 10% more. When a person has to ask for a raise, the employer is at risk of losing that employee.

In my opinion, we hired people who didn't care. That's not to say that I expect everyone to be super passionate about what we do here, but I expect some level of self-respect. Your name is associated with the work you are doing and I believe that should be mean something to them, regardless of the position.

Admittedly, I also believe there should be some responsibility that the company has in making sure people are held accountable because when that's not done, it makes this path that much easier for these types of people to go down. And when people start heading down that path without accountability, it seems to become contagious.

 

[ChrisC]

All the above are great ideas/techniques for the interview/hiring process. I believe the OP mentioned he was working on a hire for a manual labor/unskilled worker type position. For a number of years I was responsible for hiring warehouse and delivery personnel for a large furniture store, here in AK. One of the things I did before setting up an interview was to check the state court system for legal problems. This step unqualified quite a few prospective employees. Another thing I would do (today) would be to check their social media footprint - FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc.

In the past we had gone through a temp. agency and had them suggest an applicant that we all liked. Our HR department did the usual background check (which the temp. agency was already supposed to have done before suggesting anyone) and found he was convicted of kidnapping and various other things. The next day the temp agency called, apparently after catching up on their responsibilities, saying -without elaborating - that they have to remove the applicant for consideration. Always good to check.

 

[cedahm]

Totally agree. We normally go through a process whereby candidates are interviewed by multiple people. I include non-manager peers to the role I’m hiring for in that process and their role is to assess technical skills and ability to do the job. Definitely critical, but IMO not the only thing to assess.

Same here. After initial screens by our recruiting team, if a candidate makes the ‘in person’ round, they have at least 4 different interviews (direct admit partners and directors will have more):

- ’Core skills’: based on level, do they have the necessary hard skills for the job.

- ‘Fit/Cultural’ : more conversational style and candidate-driven (ask more of the questions than the interviewer). Evaluating their personality, ability to have meaningful client interactions, and likelihood to succeed in the environment they will be in. E.g. - Are they more than a rental player. Also their opportunity to interview us.

- ‘Case’: supposed to be a fairly rigorous Case study of which we have a dozen or so to choose from, but I usually just frame a case around a current project - similar to wllm being shown the laptop.

- ‘leadership’ - for junior staff this is usually another flavor of ‘Fit’, for more senior candidates it’s focused on how you can lead teams and guide work. Candidate does most of the talking and it’s probably closest to the traditional ‘what are your strengths‘ kind of interviewer-led style.

in all cases, I weight the interview portion WAY higher than resume content.

 

[LousyResident]

Same here. After initial screens by our recruiting team, if a candidate makes the ‘in person’ round, they have at least 4 different interviews (direct admit partners and directors will have more):

- ’Core skills’: based on level, do they have the necessary hard skills for the job.

- ‘Fit/Cultural’ : more conversational style and candidate-driven (ask more of the questions than the interviewer). Evaluating their personality, ability to have meaningful client interactions, and likelihood to succeed in the environment they will be in. E.g. - Are they more than a rental player. Also their opportunity to interview us.

- ‘Case’: supposed to be a fairly rigorous Case study of which we have a dozen or so to choose from, but I usually just frame a case around a current project - similar to wllm being shown the laptop.

- ‘leadership’ - for junior staff this is usually another flavor of ‘Fit’, for more senior candidates it’s focused on how you can lead teams and guide work. Candidate does most of the talking and it’s probably closest to the traditional ‘what are your strengths‘ kind of interviewer-led style.

in all cases, I weight the interview portion WAY higher than resume content.

I have to admit, facing 4 interviews as a candidate seems like it would be incredibly frustrating. How long does that process normally take?

 

[OntarioHunter]

I'm hardly an expert, but I've interviewed for probably for probably a dozen positions over the years, for what I was looking for it was pretty easy to pull out the candidates from the pile that I wanted to talk to. For me it started with job history, as in how much and how long at one place. Did they move up, and why are they looking for a change. As mentioned if they were looking for more of a challenge... sign here. If it was for some other reason, then why? Get them talking about their passions, do they like to learn new things, or play sports? That passion generally follows through to work ethic, it also helps you see if they will fit in with the rest of the employees.

I disagree about the schooling that was mentioned above to some extent. I'm probably the dumbest person in the room in any number of internal meetings I attend. I would estimate 25% of our staff have a PhD, and another 50% has at least 1 masters degree the rest of us peons get by on street smarts and past experience. It takes a special person to dedicate that much time and effort to learning something. This is not always the case, but it takes a special individual to have a PhD in the geosciences and engineering. A master in business? meah...

As far as interviewing, don't ask stupid questions. I interviewed for a seat on a board a while back, and at the end of the interview I told them I wasn't interested in the position after the interview. The questions where some of the stupidest things I've ever had someone ask me. What are my favorite books? Who would I like to spend a week on an island with? Who do you idolize? Who is my favorite historical figure? WTF. None of that had anything to do with the position, and if someone was this I'll prepared for an interview I didn't want to be part of their dong factory.

I forgot the most important one for me... Did they research the company they want to work for. If they have no clue who you are, it will be obvious in the interview, and I ask them up front. Someone that want to work for you will know what you do, someone who wants a paycheck won't have a clue and will expect to learn about you in the interview.

I remember an interview for a museum job several years ago when one of the board members asked me if I could be an animal what critter would I choose. Really? I said nothing for a moment while studying the reaction of the rest of the board. Instead of throwing something at the gal, they all sat there with baited breath awaiting my response. It was not a terribly productive interview up to that point but now clearly out the window. Didn't take a sack of tea leaves to deduce that job wasn't going anywhere. So I had some fun. "Amoeba" Several jaws dropped and hit the table. Why? "It would be nice not having to think about life. Just swim around and have sex with myself." They were not amused. Oh well.

 

[cedahm]

I have to admit, facing 4 interviews as a candidate seems like it would be incredibly frustrating. How long does that process normally take?

1 day. 09:00-15:00 usually (with breaks and lunch For the candidates). Pre-COVID, we would have office interview days every other Friday in one of the central offices and fly both candidates and some interviewers there (Dallas, Chicago, Atlanta, NY).

now they are virtual but all still in one day. Which I would hate more as a candidate (And I definitely hate more as an interviewer).

this is pretty standard practice for larger professional services firms and almost all the tech companies.

 

[TOGIE]

This is not always the case, but it takes a special individual to have a PhD in the geosciences and engineering. A master in business? meah...

as someone who studied the geosciences in college i will agree that it indeed takes a special individual to pursue and obtain a PhD in one of the many geo fields

and that's why i'm not always so sure i want those guys working for/with me

 

[Cammy]

Had a young lady (20 something college student) apply for a job that she had ZERO experience or job knowledge for which was ok as we were looking for someone we could train into the position. We are not a large company but we pride ourselves on providing jobs and benefits to 50 families in our area. We finished the interview and asked if she had any questions. "What does your company do for society?" was her question. Took everything I had not to choke her out immediately. Needless to say we do not provide jobs and benefits for 51 families.

 

[Bambistew]

as someone who studied the geosciences in college i will agree that it indeed takes a special individual to pursue and obtain a PhD in one of the many geo fields

and that's why i'm not always so sure i want those guys working for/with me

What do you do for work? I agree there are some special ones, and they are generally in the electrical and mechanical field, but when it comes to knowledge and understanding of issues I want the guy with 40 publications on a particular subject answering billion dollar questions...

 

[TOGIE]

What do you do for work? I agree there are some special ones, and they are generally in the electrical and mechanical field, but when it comes to knowledge and understanding of issues I want the guy with 40 publications on a particular subject answering billion dollar questions...

oh i'm just making a joke

i work in water resources/water rights, and reservoir and delivery management on a Reclamation project

i'm just making the joke that most folks with phds missed the pragmatism boat. a lot of them never even hoped to hop on it

 

[OntarioHunter]

Had a young lady (20 something college student) apply for a job that she had ZERO experience or job knowledge for which was ok as we were looking for someone we could train into the position. We are not a large company but we pride ourselves on providing jobs and benefits to 50 families in our area. We finished the interview and asked if she had any questions. "What does your company do for society?" was her question. Took everything I had not to choke her out immediately. Needless to say we do not provide jobs and benefits for 51 families.

I think you mean "chuck her out immediately"? Or perhaps you need some interpersonal skills work? Must be a couple of charm schools in the area. Or maybe the county jail can fit you into their curriculum.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Had a young lady (20 something college student) apply for a job that she had ZERO experience or job knowledge for which was ok as we were looking for someone we could train into the position. We are not a large company but we pride ourselves on providing jobs and benefits to 50 families in our area. We finished the interview and asked if she had any questions. "What does your company do for society?" was her question. Took everything I had not to choke her out immediately. Needless to say we do not provide jobs and benefits for 51 families.

Or you could have said, "We pay a living wage, respect the environment and our employees, and pride ourselves on providing 50 jobs and benefits to 50 families in our area." It's a standard question from the next generation, not a sign of evil, wokeness, or laziness. I've got some super-smart folks working 60+ hours a week that asked that very question - I was happy to share our story - it helped me to hire some talent over the competition.

Every new generation for the last 120 years has been the whiny, lazy one. The only one that didn't get the label was the one we sent to die in Europe and the Pacific in the 40's. But in the end, probably a good thing she isn't there, seems like both of you would have been miserable, but I wouldn't be so quick to designate a winner.

 

[Fire_9]

Had a young lady (20 something college student) apply for a job that she had ZERO experience or job knowledge for which was ok as we were looking for someone we could train into the position. We are not a large company but we pride ourselves on providing jobs and benefits to 50 families in our area. We finished the interview and asked if she had any questions. "What does your company do for society?" was her question. Took everything I had not to choke her out immediately. Needless to say we do not provide jobs and benefits for 51 families.

Set your ego aside and look at the bigger picture as I believe that is a valid question. If more companies did that, our nation would be a much better place...

 

[Cammy]

I think you mean "chuck her out immediately"? Or perhaps you need some interpersonal skills work? Must be a couple of charm schools in the area. Or maybe the county jail can fit you into their curriculum.

Nope, I meant choke her out. I'm a 20 year military guy that managed one of the most diverse populations of employees ever created. I have excellent people skills in addition to the ability to train and motivate teams. The individual that was being interviewed had ZERO work experience and was applying for what would be her first job. I did not appreciate the tone and condescending manner in which the individual in question made her inquiry. The manner in which the question was posed was enough to finish the interview immediately. I was extremely offended that some one would infer that our company, who prides itself on taking care of our employee's and their family's the way we do, does not contribute to society.

I am sorry there are those of you who responded to this comment feel that I was wrong to be offended but I stand by my decision to not hire a snobby brat. Maybe my standards for what is considered acceptable don't match yours however, going back to the 30 plus years of management experience and the ability to read people, the candidate would not have been a long term fit.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Nope, I meant choke her out. I'm a 20 year military guy that managed one of the most diverse populations of employees ever created. I have excellent people skills in addition to the ability to train and motivate teams. The individual that was being interviewed had ZERO work experience and was applying for what would be her first job. I did not appreciate the tone and condescending manner in which the individual in question made her inquiry. The manner in which the question was posed was enough to finish the interview immediately. I was extremely offended that some one would infer that our company, who prides itself on taking care of our employee's and their family's the way we do, does not contribute to society.

I am sorry there are those of you who responded to this comment feel that I was wrong to be offended but I stand by my decision to not hire a snobby brat. Maybe my standards for what is considered acceptable don't match yours however, going back to the 30 plus years of management experience and the ability to read people, the candidate would not have been a long term fit.

Actually I thought it must have been a typo. Choke someone "out" is a rather unusual way of putting it. Anyway, either way I was pretty sure you were speaking figuratively. I was just having a bit of fun with what I thought was a smartphone induced typo.

I think that brat needs to spend some time getting her ass slapped as a minimum wage diner waitress. Maybe then she will have a better attitude about seeking employment with an outfit like yours.

 

[Cammy]

Or you could have said, "We pay a living wage, respect the environment and our employees, and pride ourselves on providing 50 jobs and benefits to 50 families in our area." It's a standard question from the next generation, not a sign of evil, wokeness, or laziness. I've got some super-smart folks working 60+ hours a week that asked that very question - I was happy to share our story - it helped me to hire some talent over the competition.

Every new generation for the last 120 years has been the whiny, lazy one. The only one that didn't get the label was the one we sent to die in Europe and the Pacific in the 40's. But in the end, probably a good thing she isn't there, seems like both of you would have been miserable, but I wouldn't be so quick to designate a winner.

Oh I explained that we take care of 50 families.

They called them the greatest generation right? They came back from Europe and the Pacific and went to work building America. There have been other generations that followed them on to the battle field some of them vilified for answering the call in the 60's and 70's and my generation who came back from Desert Storm to a hero's welcome. Today we have the generation who has fought in Afghanistan and other locations in that part of the world who return with little fanfare. Consider the fact that we have had troops deployed, fighting and dying in that part of the world since August of 1990 with no real end in sight. I often say that the problem with some of the youth today (and some older people) is they never had the benefit of military basic training.

It is not about evil, wokeness or laziness, it is about respect for or an understanding that a business does contribute to society everyday in some manner. Be it jobs for employee's or tax revenue for schools and infrastructure or to move goods that we all want or need to make our lives enjoyable. Businesses exist because they fill a need or want of a society and that in and by itself is a contribution to society.

 

[Cammy]

Set your ego aside and look at the bigger picture as I believe that is a valid question. If more companies did that, our nation would be a much better place...

No ego involved. Would love to know how bigger picture view would allow room for that question. Our nation is the best place on earth trust me as I have lived abroad and have seen "the bigger picture". There is no validity to that question and there will never be a time that asking a potential employer that question should be relevant.

 

[Fire_9]

I can understand your point if there was a definite snotty tone to her question, but overall I would not have a problem with that question. You say there’s no ego involved but I hate to break it to you, it is. When you immediately throw up a wall to a question, that’s ego. I think that you’re also forgetting that the interview process is for both parties to ask relevant questions. She obviously wanted to work for a company that does more than just pay their employees. If all the companies in the US only relied on their taxes and employees wages to contribute to organizations and communities, a lot of people and non profits would suffer. It’s no different than Joe Blow member of the public. If we all went through life not making donations or volunteering time, our country would not be what it is. “I work and pay taxes” is not a sufficient answer for me and “We support 50 families and pay taxes” is not a sufficient response for a company in my opinion.

I will never question that we live in the greatest country in the world but that doesn’t mean that we should stop trying to improve it. Wouldn’t you be proud to work for a company that made donations an organization that helped veterans or better yet went out of their way to hire vets?