Here's the bird answer

[Ithaca 37]

Remember "Welfare Ranchers Kill Migratory Birds"?

http://www.huntandlodge.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=31&t=001674

BLM advises grazers to protect birds

MALAD — The Bureau of Land Management has directed livestock grazers on federal allotments across southern Idaho to survey water troughs and make sure they are fitted with internal ladders to protect migratory birds.
The directive was prompted by the deaths of 150 birds, many migratory, on the 70,000-acre Pleasantview allotment in eastern Idaho, where bird ladders were not maintained to let non-waterfowl climb out of the troughs after drinking.

The agency told all ranchers to report the number of troughs on their allotments and whether bird ladders are in place. They are supposed to immediately install ladders in troughs that don´t have them. The bureau will provide the ladders, but ranchers must install and maintain them.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/News/Idaho/story.asp?ID=46259&S=0

 

[Ten Bears]

Looks like the BLM lost track of the number an location of all their water troughs.

Maybe even forgot to include maintenance in the grazing lease?

 

[1_pointer]

Not neccesarily. Many BLM grazing allotments include private land, which was agreed upon by the land owner. These lands are managed in the same way that the government owned land is. However, they are not subject to the red tape and paperwork required for management actions unless using federal funds. Again, just my limited understanding. Someone please let me know if and how far I'm off-base.

 

[Wally Dog]

I hear that the next thing ranchers will have to do is install ladders along natural/verticle cutbanks to prevent this horrid event from becoming even more prevalent.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Since these welfare ranchers always claim they're real concerned about wildlife I'm sure they'll cheerfully follow this latest gummint edict.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have seen blue grouse use these ladders to get out of stock tanks. I would assume that many other species use the ladders to get out of the water. Ron

 

[Michaelr]

Whats next???

Life guards??

maybe I could hire some baywatch babes

 

[1_pointer]

What is with all the bitching about this. Obviously this can be a hazard. The ranchers are given a concrete (the one's I've seen are) ladder to put in their tanks for free. THen, when the check the tanks, which they will be doing anyway, they see if the ladder is still there an intact. What's the big frigging deal? Are you guys so damned paranoid that this 'intrusion' into private lives is going to slowly lead to all of us being branded and treated like pawns by Big Brother. This is not a big deal, so they have to spend probably at total of 10 extra hours (at most) checking something given to the for free to be able to use a public owned commodity/resource.

 

[Ithaca 37]

1 pointer, Exactly what I was thinking! It shows me that some of our SI posters really don't care about wildlife. As I mentioned in the origional thread about this problem; the biologists had to prove a case like this and they certainly did. There's no doubt it's a problem. Now the solution is free and easy. Any welfare rancher should be checking water troughs regularly anyway, right? They certainly wouldn't want to waste precious water by having a leak, would they? How much extra time is it going to take them to put the ladder in?

Some of you SI posters amaze me with your indifferent attitude about wildlife. A real hunter appreciates all wildlife and values all wildlife. Maybe some of you are so stupid you've never even figured out the links and interaction between all species. I'm sure some of you rank novices who consider yourselves hunters have no idea how to interpret songbird actions to help you be a more successful hunter. If you could do that you'd immediately know why it's beneficial to have healthy and abundant bird populations.

Your wiseass posts about the water trough problem are another indication to me that you're nothing more than rank beginners at hunting.

 

[cjcj]

Ithaca get over yourself! we the street bioligists have already won this argument, this is NOT a huge problem, almost everyone including YOU has stated that when they check out the trough`s there are NO dead birds, in the tank`s and troughs RIGHT! just because of 1 incident [150 birds] that to me doesn`t justify a knee jerk reaction.

 

[BuzzH]

cjcj, your theory doesnt hold water, pun intended.

Why should we stop poaching then?

No real reason to, I mean the animals are doing fine even with all the poaching, right?

Its not a huge problem as far as endangering species or anything.

Its just an attitude of indifference that you and a few others have about wildlife thats just ridiculous. You make a piss poor street biologist, IMO. For Christ sake, whats wrong with helping out the wildlife around stock tanks? I just dont see what the problem is with it.

Besides all that, you arent the one researching it or doing the work, installing the ladders, etc. etc. etc. so why gripe about someone else doing it? Is it harmful to put ladders in stock tanks?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-09-2003 12:34: Message edited by: BuzzH ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

cjcj, Frankly, I usually don't try to look thru the water down to the bottom of the troughs to see if any dead birds are laying there. I think I will from now on. What exactly is your problem with putting ramps in troughs so birds or small animals can get out before they drown? Could you explain your position to us in some rational, logical and precise manner?

Good luck!

 

[Michaelr]

I still would prefer bay watch babes

Itchaca, the problem with this thread is it really isn't that important an issue.
I have never found a dead bird in any of our many water troughs.

and frankly your attitude always telling everybody how stupid they are, and that we are "novice hunters" is getting old.

Try being a little bit nicer.
You may be suprised at the reaction you would get from alot of us.

 

[Ten Bears]

Ithink BUZZ and IT are fishing for an argument, but civil indifference is really getting to them. I haven't read here were anyone is against putting ladders in the troughs, or even checking to make sure ladders are in the existing troughs.

IT, you kmake it sound like those troughs are the catch all and end point for moisture in these arid regions. That view alone shows your lack of intellectual fortitude.

Rank beginners? Please....

 

[Ithaca 37]

mike, Every time you violate Marland's rule about names you show, once again, how stupid you are. You wanna be treated with respect? Do something to earn it. All you've ever done since you started posting here is lose respect.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have seen a coyote eating a bird pulled out of a stock tank. I have seen ravens hanging around the stock tanks as well. I know for a fact that small animals and birds fall in. What takes them out and where they go is obvious. Because you have not seen dead animals and birds in the tanks I would not assume it never happens.
The tanks I have seen had a small expanded steel ladder. I think it is better than nothing. Ron

 

[Michaelr]

Itchaca,
Now cry about the rulese ya frikin cry baby

Respect??
You have never had any!!
All you are is an ignoramus, blow hard

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-10-2003 16:46: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

mike, It's real simple. Marland worked hard to establish a basic set of civil rules to minimize animosity. You repeatedly and continually ignore Marland. Now you whine because you don't get respect?!

 

[Michaelr]

Tell ya what itchaca,
I already did my part to try and get people to be more civil. It worked for awhile

Why don't YOU do something??
As smart as you think you are it should be easy.

The ball is in your court.

As long as you continue to be rude and call names and tell everybody how stupid they are, I will continue to harrass you as well

 

[Ten Bears]

IT couldn't get through the last couple of cease-fires over name calling. Why would he want to try anything now?

MARS, can we get those rules posted @ the topic of SI as a fixed topic,please?