Help with Bighorn bonus points

[Slick]

A fish and wildlife management degree. And thanks for the tip about Utah.
So hypothetically. So would it be smart to get your dates lines up and try and purchase a hunting liscense and bonus point really close to the deadline? Then the next year try and purchase another bonus point before the deadline and you'd save some coin?

And a degree in Ecology: Fish and Wildlife Management
Haven't really decided if I want to shoot for a park ranger, game warden type deal, as a biologist you need a masters degree

 

[Zim]

I know several other knowledgable hunters who promptly dumped their accumulated WY sheep points when they started charging $100/year. Bottom line is I can invest that money in much better places, like Nevada, Arizona, etc. where my ROI is statistically much higher. If you want to blow $100 or $150/year on dreams I highly recommend throwing your cash at Idaho where you'd have a much better chance to actually draw a tag in your lifetime. Just do the math. Hint.......it's not even close, even if you take your cash and apply every other year do to the higher cost.

There is a reason Wyoming legislators have discussed changing the draw %'s from 75% preference/25% random to 50%/50%. Folks like me figured out their points were a poor value and bailed.

You can go with SFW's battle cry of "If you don't apply, you can't draw". But guess what?.........I can draw.........just in different states, where the ROI on my money is better.

Some of these states rely on selling perceived value.............not real value.

 

[Slick]

Thanks for all the help guys, this is really making descisions quite a bit easier as a college student who is on limited funds.

Idaho-not applying for reasons stated previously
Wyoming-don't know if I can afford it at this time.
Montana-of course
Utah-looks to me like that will be 100 bucks
Colorado-good to go
Nevada-will apply

Haven't looked into Arizona and New Mexico or any of the coastal states on their prices.. Just looks like I have a bit more homework to do.

Btw- can I buy a preference point for sheep AND buy an unlimited tag in Montana?

 

[dustinf]

.

Btw- can I buy a preference point for sheep AND buy an unlimited tag in Montana?

Not sure if you can add a point, but there is a way to buy an unlimited tag without losing points.

If you are successful on the unlimited tag, you have to wait 7 years to get another tag. Unlimited or draw.

 

[mdunc8]

Btw- can I buy a preference point for sheep AND buy an unlimited tag in Montana?

Nope. Unlimited tag has to be your first and only choice. However, I THINK (not entirely positive as I've never done it) you keep your points so long as you don't screw up and accidentally pay for a bonus point that you wouldn't get anyways.

 

[1_pointer]

A fish and wildlife management degree. And thanks for the tip about Utah.
So hypothetically. So would it be smart to get your dates lines up and try and purchase a hunting liscense and bonus point really close to the deadline? Then the next year try and purchase another bonus point before the deadline and you'd save some coin?

And a degree in Ecology: Fish and Wildlife Management
Haven't really decided if I want to shoot for a park ranger, game warden type deal, as a biologist you need a masters degree

You got it! Apply at the end of one application period and the beginning the of the next with just one hunting license.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but with those degress and the jobs they generally garner it will be difficult to afford to just pay for a sheep hunt. I know as I'm in, for the most part, the same field. You don't need a MS to be a biologist, but it does help. Unless school is just painful for you, I'd suggest pursuing one.

 

[mdunc8]

You don't need a MS to be a biologist, but it does help.

Not all states require a graduate degree, but many are starting to (e.g., Montana; http://fwp.mt.gov/doingBusiness/employment/qualifications/fishBiologist.html). Even if they don't, it would be very tough getting a job with just a BS.

 

[Slick]

Hmm.. Now I'm torn what to do in MT

 

[PonoHunt]

I am two of those Toad, and I recently moved to Bozeman, so the opportuniy is there, I realized that and have been pouring over maps of the Beartooths.

Buzz great advice, it seems discouraging at times, but someone has to draw.

It would take me more time then I would like to think to save up 10+ thousand dollars to shoot one of these buggers.


The unlimited area sounds like the way to go for now, I wouldnt even mind tagging along and being a pack mule for someone.

I agree with Buzz. With you being in College now, and not having any idea of where you might end up, build as many pts as you can afford to. I have a buddy who was not putting in for Utah with me, as he didn't plan on getting a chance to make it there for a hunt, 4 years later he gets transferred there and has only 1 PP for all species, instead of 4. Now he is a resident where he can only put in for 1 of the big 3 and 1 of the big game, where he could of had 4 PP's for all species, which would of helped him out a lot for drawing a resident tag in the future. Also, now that I have a "hunting buddy" in Utah, having 4 PP's for all species helps me out, as I now have a local that can help me out on areas, scouting, place to stay, etc. You never know where you or one of your hunting buddies will end up some day, so apply for all the pts you can for all the states you can afford.

Also, someone has to draw those tags. I put in for NM antelope tag each year, and with no PP's in the state, everyone has the same shot. I drew an Antelope tag on my first year putting in in 2009, with around a 3% chance by the look of the draw odds the next year. Killed a monster goat, bigger than anything I will ever kill again, all because I decided to apply even though I knew I had a very small chance.

If you need help with NM or Arizona draw information, send me a PM and I can help you out, as I put in for both states, for most species.

 

[seidelm]

If this is your first year in MT you might consider drawing a ewe tag. We went this year in 680 and it was a great time. We saw stalked up on 57 rams before we found a ewe. It was a great experience and having huge rams at 30 yards in their beds was pretty awesome. It is almost a 100% draw in some units for residents. Then in the future you can start choosing between the unlimited units and draw units. I drew with 3 points in 2005 and get to start putting in for Rams again this year. I also did AZ, NV, NM, UT, and CA last year I believe. I will probably change that up a bit this year and buy more raffle chances the odds seem to be a little better on some of those.
-Matt

 

[bigeasygator]

A few more thoughts. If you really want to hunt sheep, apply, apply, apply!! Idaho and New Mexico are great because there are no bonus or preference points when you are truly ready to hunt (in Idaho, there are some units that have almost a 10% of drawing a tag, although they aren't "great" sheep units, you'd still be sheep hunting). Arizona you don't have to front the tag fees up front, but you do need to buy a license. As mentioned before, New Mexico doesn't have points (when you apply you pay for the license up front though, and this is the most expensive tag in the country at over $3k).

 

[Flatrock]

I know Zim hates the Wyomimg system and other states, (rightfully so) but if you are only 20, how many other 20 year olds do you think are putting in for wyoming sheep? I have a hard time believing it is anything substantial. Even if they change the allocation like Zim says, who knows what will happen but I would bet tons of people would bail out of the points game and maybe it wouldn't make much of a difference. He definitely has some good points so at least think about what he has said.

My thinking is: would you rather be 40 and $2,000 poorer with 20 points or have an extra $2,000 in your pocket? I understand your position though and have been in your shoes.

 

[Slick]

That's a bummer, and I would rather not find that out the hard way. I don't have a ton of money to throw around especially moving out west and trying to get gear lined up for next season along with buying points. Looks like I'll be eating soup and ramen for the next few months .


And I have been emailing a few local biologists about job placement, pay, time off the usual. One told me about needing an MS for Montana, but that's probably what's going to have to happen. What's that, if you know 1pointer; another 4 years?

 

[1_pointer]

IMO, an MS should take no longer than 3 years max if you go full time and that's one where you conduct original research and write a thesis. Some schools offer a master's program without the thesis. Utah State offered a Master's of Natural Resources (non thesis) while I was there and IIRC it was an 18mos program. Classes and research took me 2 years. I started working full-time before I finished my thesis which took me another 2 years. Of which 6mos was spent just trying to get signatures as my advisor had retired and spent a lot of time travelling. But, I was enjoying work and procrastinated.

The requirements, pay, and benefits for federal jobs are listed in their advertisements for application on usajobs.gov. Similarly, I would really, really look into applying now for Student Career Employment Program (SCEP) positions if you are considering working for a federal agency. If you can land one, you are not garanteed a job, but will have 180days non-competitive hiring status once you finish your degree. Plus, some offer tuition reimbursement. If you can get one, they are a great way to get your foot in the door or at the minimum get a whole lot of experience that will look great on your resume.

Also, don't forget to include some forestry, range, and soils classes. IMO/E that increased breadth of knowledge is very useful and broadens the range of jobs you qualify for.

 

[Slick]

Thanks for all the advice fellas, this is turning into more of a brain stumper then I thought.

I'll go back thru and read all the posts when I have some more time tonight and jot down everything I've gathered from here.

Put it all into a docutment, and from THAT information make some decisions based, on price.
I think it will be hard for me to try for states that I need to buy the tag upfront. My credit card limit is at 5,000 so that would limit it to possibly 3 different states, but i dont know how much the interest would be on that, nor am i good with that and Id really need to know as to figure out my budget.

Thanks for everything so far fellas.

 

[Carrion Carrier]

States change the rules of the draw all the time. WY gives out a load of tags and you should get into that pool if you can.

 

[mdunc8]

What's that, if you know 1pointer; another 4 years?

Nowadays, it's typically two field seasons and about a year of writing.

 

[Slick]

Thanks for all the responses guy's. This has turned out to be more information then I ever expected.

I still havent got around to AZ, NM, CA, OR, or WA. But have the day off tomorrow so I'll be doing some more homework.

Montana (Resident)

Liscense Fee: $130
Conservation Fee: $8
Bonus Point Fee: $2
Total: $10
*cannot buy point AND draw unlimited unit tag
*advised to hunt ewes, (almost 100% success rate for residents) gain bonus points later decide between unlimited and limited draw units.

Wyoming**
Liscense Fee: $2,252
Application Fee: $14
BP Fee: $100
Total: $114 (after refund)
*almost impossible to draw to far behind in points


Idaho
Liscence Fee: $2101.75
Hunting Liscense: $140(ish)
Application Fee: $14.75
Total: $0
*true lottery system
*better odds then most
Colorado**
Liscense Fee: $1916
Habitat Stamp: $10
Process Fee: $3
Total: $13 (after refund)
*cannot apply for Rocky Mtn and Desert Bighorn in the same year
* Desert Bighorn no preference points


Utah
Liscense Fee: $1815 `
Basic Hunt Lisc: $65
Bonus Point Fee: $10 x2
Total: $85
*two species
*don’t buy tag upfront
*possible to get away with only buying one hunting liscense every other year

Nevada
Liscense Fee: $1200
Game Fee: $10
Hunting Lisc: $142
Total: $152
*don’t buy tag up front


It looks like Wyoming and Colorado might not get a bonus point this year. I dont think I can buy a tag upfront, its really just not feasible.