HB 505 - Elk Need Your Help

[Straight Arrow]

This.

Inside that building, relationships are king. Those lobbyists and their organizations host cocktail events, symposiums, do legislator outreach during the interim & have every legislator on speed dial, because that's their job.

The Hunting & Angling community has 1 person doing this work fulltime: Montana Trout Unlimited. Every other group tries to incorporate legislative work into their work plans.

The Farm Bureau usually has between 2-3 full time lobbyists. Stockgrowers has 1-2, and MOGA has a high-powered lobby firm representing them, as well as spending staff time working the legislature 24/7, 365.

So that comradery is real. Not necessarily because the legislator always agrees with a group, or with a position, but because there are long-standing, trusted relationships with those organizations.

Until sportsmen in MT do the same, and dedicate staff to full-time maintenance of the Legislature, we will always be facing this kind of onslaught across the country, not just in MT. If you want to be successful, you have to play the game using the rules. Showing up to testify in righteous anger feels good, but it doesn't build relationships, and it doesn't always build trust.

Are you up for commuting from Michigan?

 

[brocksw]

This.

Inside that building, relationships are king. Those lobbyists and their organizations host cocktail events, symposiums, do legislator outreach during the interim & have every legislator on speed dial, because that's their job.

The Hunting & Angling community has 1 person doing this work fulltime: Montana Trout Unlimited. Every other group tries to incorporate legislative work into their work plans.

The Farm Bureau usually has between 2-3 full time lobbyists. Stockgrowers has 1-2, and MOGA has a high-powered lobby firm representing them, as well as spending staff time working the legislature 24/7, 365.

So that comradery is real. Not necessarily because the legislator always agrees with a group, or with a position, but because there are long-standing, trusted relationships with those organizations.

Until sportsmen in MT do the same, and dedicate staff to full-time maintenance of the Legislature, we will always be facing this kind of onslaught across the country, not just in MT. If you want to be successful, you have to play the game using the rules. Showing up to testify in righteous anger feels good, but it doesn't build relationships, and it doesn't always build trust.

So I'm gathering this relates directly to the 501c4 thread. Conservation orgs will need to make this jump or change the rules of the game (unlikely).


It's a shame that for body that is devoted to making policy and governing, that a relationship would trump good policy and good governing.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Having spent an afternoon in the building I have concluded that I would not make a good lobbyist.

I don’t think I have the restraint to not tell some of those legislators what I think of their ideas and attitudes when it tramples over Montanan’s interests.

As @JohnCushman so eloquently once stated beginning conversations with “Now you listen here a*******” probably doesn’t work very well.

On the other hand, @Schaaf (Boss,Justin) has all the bearing and presence of a man to be listened to. That dude is calm, composed and articulate and every legislator was sitting up and paying attention when he testified.

I think we should have our people talk to his people and see what it would take to get him to stop driving trains and relocate from little Siberia to Helena hand basket.

 

[SAJ-99]

So I'm gathering this relates directly to the 501c4 thread. Conservation orgs will need to make this jump or change the rules of the game (unlikely).


It's a shame that for body that is devoted to making policy and governing, that a relationship would trump good policy and good governing.

The silence from RMEF was deafening as well.

 

[Carnage2011]

Having spent an afternoon in the building I have concluded that I would not make a good lobbyist.

I don’t think I have the restraint to not tell some of those legislators what I think of their ideas and attitudes when it tramples over Montanan’s interests.

As @JohnCushman so eloquently once stated beginning conversations with “Now you listen here a*******” probably doesn’t work very well.

On the other hand, @Schaaf (Boss,Justin) has all the bearing and presence of a man to be listened to. That dude is calm, composed and articulate and every legislator was sitting up and paying attention when he testified.

I think we should have our people talk to his people and see what it would take to get him to stop driving trains and relocate from little Siberia to Helena hand basket.

Agree 100%

 

[brocksw]

The silence from RMEF was deafening as well.

I would agree but its important to be realistic and fair. They do great work for habitat and land purchase type stuff (no wonder they're huge with lots of money).

But I think what it tells sportsmen is that if you want to have all your bases covered, then there is a need to support groups like the Wildlife Federation and/or BHA. Supporting RMEF alone will only cover 1 aspect of a hunters interests, but the policy and advocacy game is an entirely different aspect that those more traditional orgs aren't covering.

 

[Big Fin]

The silence from RMEF was deafening as well.

I wouldn't confuse working behind the scenes to be "silence." Just sayin'.

 

[SAJ-99]

I would agree but its important to be realistic and fair. They do great work for habitat and land purchase type stuff (no wonder they're huge with lots of money).

But I think what it tells sportsmen is that if you want to have all your bases covered, then there is a need to support groups like the Wildlife Federation and/or BHA. Supporting RMEF alone will only cover 1 aspect of a hunters interests, but the policy and advocacy game is an entirely different aspect that those more traditional orgs aren't covering.

Yes, I'm certainly not advocating for anyone to stop donating to RMEF. But we need to do so with our eyes wide open. A NR hunter who takes advantage of this program is a greater source of funds for them than the 50 people who showed up to oppose.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I would agree but its important to be realistic and fair. They do great work for habitat and land purchase type stuff (no wonder they're huge with lots of money).

But I think what it tells sportsmen is that if you want to have all your bases covered, then there is a need to support groups like the Wildlife Federation and/or BHA. Supporting RMEF alone will only cover 1 aspect of a hunters interests, but the policy and advocacy game is an entirely different aspect that those more traditional orgs aren't covering.

If RMEF showed up, this bill would be in much worse shape. It is well within their scope of work to testify for or against this bill.

 

[Nameless Range]

I had to boogie after the testimony so I didn't get to see the informational witnesses. I watched them this morning.

At the end there, Director Worsech basically admitted that this was just thrown together. The proponents all of a sudden seemed a bit squishy about their resolve. He also said, "This is a starting point." There were a couple times when we were discussing with him prior to the testimony where he essentially said this was just a start, and an idea, and way to begin a discussion.

Folks, this is a bill that will become a law.

 

[tjones]

If RMEF showed up, this bill would be in much worse shape. It is well within their scope of work to testify for or against this bill.

Then RMEF needs a facelift.

 

[OntarioHunter]

This.

Inside that building, relationships are king. Those lobbyists and their organizations host cocktail events, symposiums, do legislator outreach during the interim & have every legislator on speed dial, because that's their job.

The Hunting & Angling community has 1 person doing this work fulltime: Montana Trout Unlimited. Every other group tries to incorporate legislative work into their work plans.

The Farm Bureau usually has between 2-3 full time lobbyists. Stockgrowers has 1-2, and MOGA has a high-powered lobby firm representing them, as well as spending staff time working the legislature 24/7, 365.

So that comradery is real. Not necessarily because the legislator always agrees with a group, or with a position, but because there are long-standing, trusted relationships with those organizations.

Until sportsmen in MT do the same, and dedicate staff to full-time maintenance of the Legislature, we will always be facing this kind of onslaught across the country, not just in MT. If you want to be successful, you have to play the game using the rules. Showing up to testify in righteous anger feels good, but it doesn't build relationships, and it doesn't always build trust.

This is the reason I stayed out of politics. I hate suckasses only a little more than having smoke blown up my own butt. And I hate that with a passion. Never trust a synchophant. My hat's off to folks who have skins thick enough to be effective lobbyists. I just have too much self respect I guess.

 

[brocksw]

If RMEF showed up, this bill would be in much worse shape. It is well within their scope of work to testify for or against this bill.

Absolutely. But they didn't testify. Like @Big Fin says, they may be working behind the scene. Like their response to someone earlier in the thread that inquired to RMEF, they're "monitoring" the situation.

Maybe they have a strategic reason for not testifying. Perhaps it would benefit hunters for RMEF to stick to habitat and land purchases as much as possible and leave some of the policy stuff to other orgs.

I don't know. I'm just saying we can only go by what we know. It's time for sportsmen to stop burying their head in the sand about conservation groups. This is a prime example of why you need to support multiple, not throw stones at ones who don't get 100% on every single litmus test you can think of.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I had to boogie after the testimony so I didn't get to see the informational witnesses. I watched them this morning.

At the end there, Director Worsech basically admitted that this was just thrown together. The proponents all of a sudden seemed a bit squishy about their resolve. He also said, "This is a starting point." There were a couple times when we were discussing with him prior to the testimony where he essentially said this was just a start, and an idea, and way to begin a discussion.

Folks, this is a bill that will become a law.

Exactly. This is like saying "let's have a pleasant conversation" when someone is holding a gun to your head.

 

[sacountry]

This.

Inside that building, relationships are king. Those lobbyists and their organizations host cocktail events, symposiums, do legislator outreach during the interim & have every legislator on speed dial, because that's their job.

The Hunting & Angling community has 1 person doing this work fulltime: Montana Trout Unlimited. Every other group tries to incorporate legislative work into their work plans.

The Farm Bureau usually has between 2-3 full time lobbyists. Stockgrowers has 1-2, and MOGA has a high-powered lobby firm representing them, as well as spending staff time working the legislature 24/7, 365.

So that comradery is real. Not necessarily because the legislator always agrees with a group, or with a position, but because there are long-standing, trusted relationships with those organizations.

Until sportsmen in MT do the same, and dedicate staff to full-time maintenance of the Legislature, we will always be facing this kind of onslaught across the country, not just in MT. If you want to be successful, you have to play the game using the rules. Showing up to testify in righteous anger feels good, but it doesn't build relationships, and it doesn't always build trust.

What I'm hearing you say is that because RMEF allegedly works behind the scenes that it's time for Elk Unlimited. Honestly, I don't know why RMEF is behind the scenes. There is a time for that but it shouldn't be 100% of the time. They need to step forward once in awhile and HB505 should have been one of those times. It was an error in their judgement IMHO. So, to your point, perhaps it is time for Elk Unlimited or Elk Forever or some other group that would be willing to champion the political landscape for our elk.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Then RMEF needs a facelift.

They need a Gov't Relations Director to help navigate this stuff.

 

[brocksw]

What I'm hearing you say is that because RMEF allegedly works behind the scenes that it's time for Elk Unlimited. Honestly, I don't know why RMEF is behind the scenes. There is a time for that but it shouldn't be 100% of the time. They need to step forward once in awhile and HB505 should have been one of those times. It was an error in their judgement IMHO. So, to your point, perhaps it is time for Elk Unlimited or Elk Forever or some other group that would be willing to champion the political landscape for our elk.

Just support the wildlife federation or BHA in addition to RMEF.

That's the answer.

 

[tjones]

Maybe they have a strategic reason for not testifying. Perhaps it would benefit hunters for RMEF to stick to habitat and land purchases as much as possible and leave some of the policy stuff to other orgs.

Yet they continue to beat the wolf drum. It would be nice to know what issues they jump into like wolves and work in front of the scene and which issues they choose to maybe work behind the scene on.

That dividing line would be nice to know.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Exactly. This is like saying "let's have a pleasant conversation" when someone is holding a gun to your head.

The bill's sponsor, Rep Galt, kept referring to a "conversation". That's not what a bill passed, then signed into law by the Governor is. Disingenuous with a capital D!

 

[Gerald Martin]

This is the reason I stayed out of politics. I hate suckasses only a little more than having smoke blown up my own butt. And I hate that with a passion. Never trust a synchophant. My hat's off to folks who have skins thick enough to be effective lobbyists. I just have too much self respect I guess.

Self -respect and self-restraint are too different animals.

I lack too much of the latter to be a good lobbyist.
I have to much of the former to pretend that I am better than the people who exhibit the former to professionally represent the interests of people who hire them.

Insinuating that @Ben Lamb is a suck*** is pretty low.

He is a patient man with great restraint, impeccable tastes in firearms, shaper of earthenware, and pathetic elk hunting skills.