Hazing Elk off of Public Land

[Straight Arrow]

You have succeeded once again, Jose ... your silliness got em riled up. (Pun intended, Riley.)

You are guilty of harassing hunttalkers.

 

[noharleyyet]

Jose could have Hilly's debate coach crying inside of 5 minutes....fact.

 

[teamhoyt]

I Didn't read all the posts so sorry if this has been said already.

What do you bet this rancher herds the elk onto his place for bull seasons to outfit then bitches about all the elk and begs for a shoulder season

 

[James Riley]

I Didn't read all the posts so sorry if this has been said already.

What do you bet this rancher herds the elk onto his place for bull seasons to outfit then bitches about all the elk and begs for a shoulder season

It was said, or at least implied, but it bears repeating. No harm, no foul. I'll say it again: I bet these "people" complain about elk damaging their crops and milk the government coming and going.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Tkaidahi2000 if you posted this just to pull the trolls out of hiding you are the king of the trolls! Bravo!

 

[Tkaldahl2000]

I had no idea the response I would get. I'm still trying to figure out if Jose Cuervo thinks that hazing the elk onto private property is an ethical and appropriate thing to do because it isn't "really illegal", and am somewhat surprised by how many have stories about how it happens in their areas. I personally think that any landowner caught doing such a thing should lose their hunting privileges, and they should have to pay back any money they received for damage to crops caused by elk. Not to open another can of worms, but I also think that ranchers who charge hunters for access during our shoulder seasons should also forfeit damage payments for damages caused by elk. I support their right to charge, but they can't have it both ways.

 

[fowladdict]

I had no idea the response I would get. I'm still trying to figure out if Jose Cuervo thinks that hazing the elk onto private property is an ethical and appropriate thing to do because it isn't "really illegal", and am somewhat surprised by how many have stories about how it happens in their areas. I personally think that any landowner caught doing such a thing should lose their hunting privileges, and they should have to pay back any money they received for damage to crops caused by elk. Not to open another can of worms, but I also think that ranchers who charge hunters for access during our shoulder seasons should also forfeit damage payments for damages caused by elk. I support their right to charge, but they can't have it both ways.

I didn't read Jose say it was ethical, just not illegal. I am curious as to how the quads were used on private land to "round up" the elk. Were they driven off trail? That could warrant a citation if proven.

 

[Flynarrow]

I rarely post or comment so congrats in getting me to act. As expected, the unethical and illegal activity affecting hunters is bound to call for stronger laws and stiffer penalties, which I truly support. However, as I worked on behalf of Montana Bowhunters Assn years ago to write and help pass what is known as the Trophy Poaching Law....stiffer fines and restitution for poaching trophy animals. Having written the draft bill that contained confiscation of equipment used in a crime, the sponsor (House Majority Leader at the time) told me that confiscation in Montana would kill the bill...."its a strong property rights state" and "what happens when a guy uses grandmas's truck to poach"?

Also we often hear hunters say "someone should do something about that". Please look in the mirror. Most all of us are worn out after many years on many conservation fronts, and would sincerely welcome new blood in standing up for sportsmen. Getting a new law is not easy. Write a good bill, find a powerful sponsor in the dominant political party, getting all the interest groups activated, informed and motivated, getting a lot of sportsmen to testify at hearing, and then getting their state representatives to vote in favor. And there will always be opposition, including full time lobbyists. Getting a strong wildlife harassment bill with big penalties thru Montana legislature would be especially hard since the legislature is dominated by ag interests. Tell a legislator his rancher buds cant harass elk out of his alfalfa field, and would possibly lose their truck. Remember how strong ag dominates this Legislature.....remember that when you vote. Get involved and realize nothing worthwhile is easy.

 

[James Riley]

I rarely post or comment so congrats in getting me to act. As expected, the unethical and illegal activity affecting hunters is bound to call for stronger laws and stiffer penalties, which I truly support. However, as I worked on behalf of Montana Bowhunters Assn years ago to write and help pass what is known as the Trophy Poaching Law....stiffer fines and restitution for poaching trophy animals. Having written the draft bill that contained confiscation of equipment used in a crime, the sponsor (House Majority Leader at the time) told me that confiscation in Montana would kill the bill...."its a strong property rights state" and "what happens when a guy uses grandmas's truck to poach"?

Also we often hear hunters say "someone should do something about that". Please look in the mirror. Most all of us are worn out after many years on many conservation fronts, and would sincerely welcome new blood in standing up for sportsmen. Getting a new law is not easy. Write a good bill, find a powerful sponsor in the dominant political party, getting all the interest groups activated, informed and motivated, getting a lot of sportsmen to testify at hearing, and then getting their state representatives to vote in favor. And there will always be opposition, including full time lobbyists. Getting a strong wildlife harassment bill with big penalties thru Montana legislature would be especially hard since the legislature is dominated by ag interests. Tell a legislator his rancher buds cant harass elk out of his alfalfa field, and would possibly lose their truck. Remember how strong ag dominates this Legislature.....remember that when you vote. Get involved and realize nothing worthwhile is easy.

I agree with everything you said. It's unfortunate. After all, it seems that if you have the money then you don't need to go to all that work. You just have to tuck (sneak) your language in as a rider, buried in some bigger "must pass" legislation at the last minute and Bingo! you've got a law. Meanwhile, us peons have to struggle through the process you describe.

For the record, I am opposed to any administrative forfeiture, but I support it after due process of law in a criminal court.

 

[johnp]

When these bigshot landowners have elk hazed onto their private land, I would pay a week's wage to watch the landowners' expression if helicopter hired by the public land hunters hazed those elk and whatever else was on the big shot's land way back onto public land !! Could end up in a "dog fight".

 

[Jwill]

I witnessed a pretty egregious example of this with elk in Wyoming last week... Will write it up when I get a minute.

 

[The Hedgehog]

In 2003 I learned that it can be valuable to pay careful attention to the arial "patrolling" by ranch security, After the 3rd slow climb and then a drop and flyby of the same ridge above private land, I decided to head over and glass into what they were buzzing over and over. The ranch mgr/pilot should have received a Christmas card that year, thanking them for the ariel pinpointing this bull elk that was standing just above the private in an open basin. Sad for them I know - but I don't send Christmas cards.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Great bull! You should have sent him.
http://www.melandrose.com/istar.asp...mtJzbVgCMChAASdPzabmG3hUPFNuilOKRNxoCpbTw_wcB

And

https://www.shopspring.com/products...azFs1bidKPLyjZ3B77QweP-CID8XIErebEBoCOX_w_wcB

With a card that reads " just in case the mood strikes"

 

[Gr8bawana]

This hazing crap goes on all the time here in SW NM. I carry a camera all the time now to record it before I call it in.

It also happens in AZ. In the famed units 1 and 27 which shares a very long border with the Apache reservation the reservation people ride horses outside the border and haze the elk onto the reservation.