H.R. 8828 introduced -Leghold and conibear traps

[BWALKER77]

No. But I'm not an ideologue who tries to make everything us v them. So, I got that going for me.

Maybe so, but this truly is a ideological issue.

 

[BWALKER77]

Clearly you're not a golfer.

Setters range wide, get in a snare and you're on another bird. Dog is dead.

Lab goes after duck in a pond, hits the leghold trap just out of sight of where you are, dog dies from drowning. C'mon man, it's not so difficult to recognize that there is a lot conflict here.

In the first case one needs to control your dog.
In the second and I have hunted ducks with labs for years..keep an eye on the dog.
The issues you are bring up are dog handler issues, and have nothing to do with trapping.

 

[brockel]

I’m a trapper and I avoid areas that people like to bird hunt until January even though those are some of the best areas to snare. The problem is I’ve already missed a month of good snaring and January is when hides drop off quick. I wouldn’t mind seeing bird season shut down thanksgiving weekend with the big game season. Still gives us bird hunters 3 months of bird hunting and it avoids the accidental catches that give trapping a bad name.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Maybe so, but this truly is a ideological issue.

Nope, not this one - avid rural hunters (i.e., conservatives) in MN led by a long time and current trapper are the ones pushing this issue here.

 

[VikingsGuy]

In the first case one needs to control your dog.
In the second and I have hunted ducks with labs for years..keep an eye on the dog.
The issues you are bring up are dog handler issues, and have nothing to do with trapping.

You can keep saying it, but many great hunters including a consistent national field trail champion from MN disagree with you.

 

[mtmuley]

So one group of sportsmen has to give something up for the other? mtmuley

 

[VikingsGuy]

So one group of sportsmen has to give something up for the other? mtmuley

Blasphemy apparently

 

[Ben Lamb]

So one group of sportsmen has to give something up for the other? mtmuley

I think you can have it all, personally. It comes down to better dog handler & trapper education & enforcement along with better rules to minimize impact on public land. In some instances, reducing season may be warranted as well. That doesn't mean statewide closures, but a better understanding of localized impacts and uses and being willing to have tough conversations in an honest attempt to thoughtfully resolve conflict. WY & MT Wild Sheep Foundation found a way to do it with bighorns and domestics.

If sheep people can do it, anyone can.

 

[mtmuley]

Blasphemy apparently

No, not really. Pretty easy to request a regulation aimed at trappers because it interferes with your bird hunting. Or, so you say. This type of thing just chips away at what we do. mtmuley

 

[406dn]

In the first case one needs to control your dog.
In the second and I have hunted ducks with labs for years..keep an eye on the dog.
The issues you are bring up are dog handler issues, and have nothing to do with trapping.

I've let several of your comments about controlling your dog go, but it is obvious you know very little about bird dogs, especially pointing dogs. Any decent pointing dog will routinely, in open country, be hundreds of yards from its handler. It is common for two dogs to be hunting independently from each other at the same time.

It is not uncommon for one of them to be a few hundred yards away on your left side and the other a similar distance on the right. They are not always in sight, nor should they be. If there are snares around it would be very easy for it to take too long to get to the dog in time to save it.

I am by no means anti- trapping but if I determined your attitude accurately reflected trappers' attitude concerning catching dogs in snares,,,,,,I could certainly change my mind.

 

[rwc101]

There was a dog caught in a trap recently near Laramie in a popular recreation site. Caused a stir in some circles. Seemed like an easy fix. Public land isn't a dog park and it's just being a good neighbor to put traps away from trails.

 

[VikingsGuy]

No, not really. Pretty easy to request a regulation aimed at trappers because it interferes with your bird hunting. Or, so you say. This type of thing just chips away at what we do. mtmuley

Plenty of ways to trap. All of life is compromises and balancing of competing interests. Seasons, tags, lotteries, bag limits, size limits, types of implements, etc etc. there has never been a time in the last 100 years where these balances weren’t being struck. There is no basis for saying that what ever Bob Smith was doing in Nov 1, 1975 is the way it should be for all people for all time.

This started out with a trapper asking other trappers to make a small change. Then it became fellow outdoorsman asking for the same. But the belligerence of the trappers has poisoned the waters and now there are folks that are going after the whole sport, folks that would have supported the trapper before. Bad politics, and they will ultimately lose, where they could have had a reasonable outcome.

 

[mtmuley]

Plenty of ways to trap. All of life is compromises and balancing of competing interests. Seasons, tags, lotteries, bag limits, size limits, types of implements, etc etc. there has never been a time in the last 100 years where these balances weren’t being struck. There is no basis for saying that what ever Bob Smith was doing in Nov 1, 1975 is the way it should be for all people for all time.

This started out with a trapper asking other trappers to make a small change. Then it became fellow outdoorsman asking for the same. But the belligerence of the trappers has poisoned the waters and now there are folks that are going after the whole sport, folks that would have supported the trapper before. Bad politics, and they will ultimately lose, where they could have had a reasonable outcome.

I do not believe that if trappers gave up what is being asked that the sport as a whole is safe. Chipping away. mtmuley

 

[brockel]

I do not believe that if trappers gave up what is being asked that the sport as a whole is safe. Chipping away. mtmuley

When it’s between trapping and other activities trapping is always the one that has to compromise

 

[geetar]

The days of hunting and trapping on public lands may have some decades left, but your grandkids won’t be doing it when they’re old. I think that’s an uncomfortable reality.

And for that very reason I’m gonna take advantage of as many opportunities as I can while it’s still left.

 

[geetar]

My brother set a trap a couple months ago to catch a fox getting in his chicken pen. Instructed wife to not let dog out in that area. Wife lets dog out. I get to watch my brother leave work in a hurry to release dog from leg hold trap. Wife is pissed. Long story short. Brother still traps ( caught 8 beavers this week ) and wife got over it. Keep your dog out of traps and everyone will be fine.

 

[Outlaw99]

Everyone talking about snares and bird dogs and questionioning the trappers common knowledge of bird dogs; I have a question?? Are most bird dogs at some point broke to lead and heal on a leash? Where I’m going with this is, unless you’re bird hunting with an un broke dog, or someplace where ram snares are legal, which isn’t too many places in the lower 48, snares and dogs shouldn’t be that big a deal. Footholds and dogs....again, not that big a deal. They get caught, they yelp, you release them, they go on bird hunting a little more trap wise. The talk of dogs getting in drowner sets for beaver is pretty far fetched. Dry land bodygrips are an extreme danger to dogs. Those sets have their place, but a trapper had better use extreme caution when making those sets, because there’s no second chances.
MtMuley has the right idea. It’s not about taking away from one sport for the benefit of the other. I’m not silencer, AR, high cap mag kinda guy, but I darn sure don’t support regulations that try to take them away from those that do. A united front of sportsman is the only chance we have at continuing the freedoms we all enjoy in our own individual ways.

 

[huronmtns]

If anybody on this forum has had an issue with there dog in a trap, please reference the State and hunting you were doing. This is a North American forum discussing many different sets of regulation for many different types of habitats.

Also the language on this thread is referencing that all trappers are bad and use no judgement in there trapping efforts. That is incorrect.

Also there are states like Michigan that have lock stoppers on dryland snares that prevent them from being able to close enough to be fatal. Or a breakaway release if a larger animal gets temporarily caught. Also regulation on where you can set them like private property only.

A lot of this conversation in this thread is generalization with out better explanations and details on the real examples. More details helps people solve problems no matter what side of the problem you are on. Both sides can learn from each other.

 

[theat]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. I really enjoy trapping (have some bobcat, marten, and wolf sets out right now) , but I also have had my lab almost killed by an illegal snare and encounter lots of illegal and potentially dangerous sets almost every year.

There is a guy around here that has been putting out snares for wolves and lions for years. Some are very near trails near homes and trails that get used by hikers and dog walkers often during the winter. Iv'e been trying to help the warden catch the guy for a handful of years now, but doesn't seem to be a priority of his.

Pretty sure its the same guy that almost killed my dog with a snare awhile back. My lab kept pretty close to me, but did like to bust around in the brush a bit too. As I was hiking along I noticed I hadn't seen or heard him for about a minute. He didn't respond to my calling so I went back and found where he had last left the trail. I found him choking to death in a snare about 10 feet off the trail in a thick patch of little grand firs. It was a non relaxing snare and if I hadn't had a leatherman and some heavy duty wire cutters in my pocket, he would be dead. Still not sure how I cut through it, but adrenaline is a powerful thing. I thought I was going to have to do CPR on him after I cut him loose, but after a second he started to catch his breath and was able to stand up after a few minutes.

If I wasn't a trapper and wanted to help the warden try to catch the guy, I would have told that story to the news and it would be another case of a trapper doing something stupid (and illegal) putting another nail in the coffin of public land trapping. I have met some good and ethical trappers, but there are a bunch that think they can do whatever they want and don't give a #&%$ about laws or anyone else. The warden found a big male lion with snare marks around its neck shoved under a cutbank a few dozen yards from the series of snares that my dog got into.

I found a few more illegally set snares this winter and before the warden could get here to have a look at them, one caught another nice lion. Lion tags are tough to draw around here and it pisses me off that this guy is killing these cats and tossing them in the bushes. The lion hung off that log for 3 weeks before the warden decided to go get it since it didn't seem like the guy was coming back.




If trappers are careful about where and how they set their connibears and snares (and only legal sets), its pretty easy to avoid catching pets. Unfortunately, there are a decent amount of guys that can't seem to do that. If no pets get caught and traps are in smart locations, no one would ever know they are there and most people wouldn't ever think about trapping.

 

[Outlaw99]

@theat, I appreciate your thought and comments, but could you please remove those lion pics. Those aren’t going to do anyone any good if the wrong person is lurking in here