Gunsmiths don’t use a torque wrench?!

[Woodrow F Call]

I wish someone would start making nordlock washers for scope mount screws. They are the greatest thing I have ever used. Just not sure they are practical for something so small with such a fine pitch. They straight up just don’t ever loosen up.

Lol, they do work. We use them a lot on gas turbines. Can't afford to have a loose bolt go through one. I do think loctite works fine on a scope though.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

It‘s my understanding over torquing can cause inaccurate elevation and windage adjustments. After learning my rings were tightened without confirming the torque I loosened them and then used a torque wrench to accurately tighten the ring screws. Even if that wasn’t the cause for error, gives me peace of mind they are set to spec.

If a few 6-40 screws are distorting your scope's ability to do its job, your rings don't fit, aren't aligned, or the tube is too flimsy. All which may be the case. If it is the case, me thinks you'll lose zero anyways the first bump the rifle sees.


Edit: I am thinking in the general sense of reasonably tightening by hand.

If you don't have a procedure telling you what to put on the threads and a quality calibrated torque wrench, you are only getting in ballpark anyways.

 

[cahunter805]

I’ve got the wheeler kit and love it. I replaced the trigger on my 700 CDL this winter and when I shot the other day, I noticed poor grouping. I check the free float and noticed the barrel was tightly touching the stock after torque to Remington specs. I had to loosen it a fair bit to relieve that. It’s still solid but there is free float now so headed to the range to try again.

Sounds like you need to bed your rifle. Also always torque the front screw and then the rear. I usually start both screws then stand the rifle up and somewhat snug the front then the rear and then torque them both.

 

[Buckyranger42]

If a few 6-40 screws are distorting your scope's ability to do its job, your rings don't fit, aren't aligned, or the tube is too flimsy. All which may be the case. If it is the case, me thinks you'll lose zero anyways the first bump the rifle sees.


Edit: I am thinking in the general sense of reasonably tightening by hand.

If you don't have a procedure telling you what to put on the threads and a quality calibrated torque wrench, you are only getting in ballpark anyways.

It may not have caused issues, but I’m not sure how sensitive scopes are to being over torqued by 5 in/lbs vs 10 in/lbs vs 20 in/lbs...

 

[Woodrow F Call]

It may not have caused issues, but I’m not sure how sensitive scopes are to being over torqued by 5 in/lbs vs 10 in/lbs vs 20 in/lbs...

Doubling the torque.... and depending on the number of screws might cause issue.

My real point was that an experienced gunsmith who does this all the time, is likely not going to cause issues by not using a torque wrench. I don't have issue with you wanting it torqued to spec. I just might not hold it against the smith if what you actually wanted wasn't specified.

More important is that the mount is solid, doesn't get loose, and it gets verified by shooting. It should be a repeatable group.

The guy who wrote the link I posted earlier prefers 10 round groups. I think if you can put ten rounds in the same spot, on demand, you got a good idea of how well your shooting system is working.

 

[thusby]

I have mounted all my own scopes for a while now. I just don't trust that job to anyone.

 

[kylemcintyre67]

The way I look at it is shooting rifles is all about repeatability. You want everything to be as close to the same as possible, every time you pull the trigger. Using a torque wrench gives me the confidence that at least the mechanical part of the equation is dialed in and repeatable if something needs to be messed with later. I am also not a gunsmith with hundreds or thousands of scopes mounted so relying on feel isn't something I am comfortable with.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

The way I look at it is shooting rifles is all about repeatability. You want everything to be as close to the same as possible, every time you pull the trigger. Using a torque wrench gives me the confidence that at least the mechanical part of the equation is dialed in and repeatable if something needs to be messed with later. I am also not a gunsmith with hundreds or thousands of scopes mounted so relying on feel isn't something I am comfortable with.

Perfectly reasonable.

 

[Curvebow]

I shoot a 300 yard F class every week. An older gent there had a great shooting rifle and a $2,800 Sightron 10-50X scope that had both coarse & fine parallax adjustments. He mounted it himself and the parallax focus kept shifting on him every shot. Frustrated (especially given the $$$ of the scope), he called Sightron. They asked what torque he use on the rings; his reply "I just tightened them". He had apparently grossly over tightened them and they advised that scope ring screws should be 18 inch pounds. Not sure if he bought a torque screwdriver, but he readjusted and all was fine after that.

I bought a set of 34mm Vortex rings for my Sightron F Class 6mm BR rifle and the torques for the base screws and ring screws is made right on them

 

[matt0550]

That’s pretty much the protocol I use. I don’t have a torque wrench. I just degrease and then Loctite everything.

Agreed - BUT there is nothing wrong with achieving absolutely equal clamping force - it removes all doubt at that particular piece of the puzzle. High quality one-piece mounts where it is an option and no regrets.

 

[Brian in Montana]

The basic equipment for mounting scopes and generally, low-level gun work is less expensive and time consuming than going to a gunsmith. And not difficult to do if you take your time and minimize distractions. Get a gun vise, a Wheeler scope mounting kit, and a Wheeler Fat Wrench. Gun vise doesn't really have to be fancy as long as it will hold your rifle still. I also have a Winchester punch pin set I've used for trigger jobs.

 

[The Lame Trapper]

Had a similar scenario. My scope was installed crooked tho. Bdc and crooked dont mix. I ordered a weaver kit and a Tipton vise and confirmed the crappy mount job from the "gunsmith". I will be mounting my own scopes from now on.

 

[devon deer]

I had a local gunshot fit my scope with a torque wrench, it bleeped when it reached the correct torque, I watched him do it, got to the range and the scope slipped in the rings!
So I manually did it, never had an issue since.
Cheers
Richard

 

[hank4elk]

In my 66 years there's only a handfull of folks I would say earned their "gunsmith" title.
Only 2 I would just let tighten stuff freehand and be fine with it. Both were retired military mastergunners.
They both told me to never just tighten stuff up without a proper sequence & torqueing. They said I would just overtighten them or they would come loose. They also never used locktite if possible.
Last time I went to a smith was to remove a seized base screw. Locktited & rusted in. He mounted the new bases freehand for me.....I removed them,cleaned & oiled the screws & remounted them with the method I have been taught in sequencing and used my Wheeler kit to install new scope.

Uncalibrated hands are as useless as uncalibrated tools...

 

[ludville1]

A Wheeler Fat Wrench and Level-Level-Level kit are on the way!

 

[Walkathon]

I bought the wheeler fat wrench because I'm not good with tightening by hand and guessing. I'm pretty sure I always over torque everything. I've also remounted scopes for my friends. Some of them had scopes mounted by big box outdoor stores, and the rings would be clamped shut on one side, huge gap on the other. It's hard to trust that anything is torqued correctly when they didn't even tighten the rings evenly.

 

[Don Fischer]

I hand tightened scope ring's and action bolt's for about 50 yrs then got a new Mossberg Patriot. Action bolt's they claim to tighten between 20-25 in/lbs. Didn't do that and ruined the plastic trigger guard the bolt went through. Got a new trigger guard and an in/lb wrench and tightened to 20# and everything is fine. Had no idea the ft/lbs on the rings so looked around and found them and used it on them too. Not a clue if it helped on the scope but it didn't hurt either!

 

[Don Fischer]

Lol, they do work. We use them a lot on gas turbines. Can't afford to have a loose bolt go through one. I do think loctite works fine on a scope though.

Use caution with loc tight. I did that on a Parker Hale rifle years ago. Had to have a gunsmith get the thing apart. He had to grind down screw driver's several times to do it. Problem was never ever under any circumstances use red loc tight, use the Blue if you must. efore the brilliant use of Red Loc tight, I seldom put anything on them but did use finger nail polish a couple times. Never had a problem with nothing on them. I think getting then tight enough holds them by itself. To tight could break a screw, bad thing but I've never done it.

 

[Don Fischer]

Doubling the torque.... and depending on the number of screws might cause issue.

My real point was that an experienced gunsmith who does this all the time, is likely not going to cause issues by not using a torque wrench. I don't have issue with you wanting it torqued to spec. I just might not hold it against the smith if what you actually wanted wasn't specified.

More important is that the mount is solid, doesn't get loose, and it gets verified by shooting. It should be a repeatable group.

The guy who wrote the link I posted earlier prefers 10 round groups. I think if you can put ten rounds in the same spot, on demand, you got a good idea of how well your shooting system is working.

I'm not sure 10 shot groups tell you how well your shooting system works but rather how your shooting technique works.

 

[geetar]

I did one last week. I took it to the automotive shop where I work and used my snap on torque wrench on inch # setting. Wheeler is much cheaper at $50 but I already had it so smoke em if you got em right?