Guess the tow bill

[JMG]

Damn ... Glad to hear no one was injured.

IMO, your trailer was heavier than your truck. Especially, since you're pulling a "toy hauler" w/ UTV in the back. The combination of a quarter-ton truck pulling a heavy load, the rough road conditions in the area (a lot of dips between MT State line and Crow Agency) probably contributed to the wreck.

What happens in trailer sway; is the trailer starts going faster than the vehicle pulling it and ultimately tries to pass the tow vehicle. Once the "sway" starts ... there is very little anyone can do to avoid a wreck.

 

[morley.tyler]

Miracles do happen.

 

[noharleyyet]

Voted the captive client 12k...

Glad everyone is ok. I was surprised to see the 2" sleeve in the receiver of your 2500HD.

 

[Addicting]

Damn ... Glad to hear no one was injured.

IMO, your trailer was heavier than your truck. Especially, since you're pulling a "toy hauler" w/ UTV in the back. The combination of a quarter-ton truck pulling a heavy load, the rough road conditions in the area (a lot of dips between MT State line and Crow Agency) probably contributed to the wreck.

What happens in trailer sway; is the trailer starts going faster than the vehicle pulling it and ultimately tries to pass the tow vehicle. Once the "sway" starts ... there is very little anyone can do to avoid a wreck.

It’s a 3/4 ton truck and he was well within the tow rating of that vehicle. Can’t comment on load capacity seeing we don’t know the tongue weight.

I would gather that in the process of chasing his away issues he put too much load on the weight distribution hitch. That takes weight off the rear axle and can lift it in sway conditions verse help control it.

 

[Moserkr]

Id guess the trailer is in the 12-14k gvwr range given that its a toy hauler with a sxs in the back, but would like to know the real specs. A 1/2 ton would not be able to tow that legally or safely, 3/4 ton no problem. Curious because of what I tow and Id like to learn to avoid what causes these types of accidents.

Im towing an 8800lb gvwr travel trailer with a 3500 chevy duramax and I dont even notice the trailer behind the truck. Helps that the truck weighs more than the trailer. I dont use a WDH either, tried it and did not like it. Even in 40mph cross winds at freeway speeds I am stable. Airbags do help a lot though.

 

[Straight Arrow]

It’s a 3/4 ton truck and he was well within the tow rating of that vehicle. Can’t comment on load capacity seeing we don’t know the tongue weight.

I would gather that in the process of chasing his away issues he put too much load on the weight distribution hitch. That takes weight off the rear axle and can lift it in sway conditions verse help control it.

I have always wondered what the effect on weight distribution is on a toy hauler trailer when a heavy UTV or ATV is at the very rear of the trailer. It would seem that an up-force on the hitch could cause sway.

Can you address that concern?

 

[HONEYBADGER]

I'm going to go with 15k. Tow yards eyes light up when they see expensive totalled vehicles.

 

[noharleyyet]

@npaden (new thread title)

Guess the insurance renewal?

 

[Benfromalbuquerque]

I’ll put heavy wrecker at $1,000/hr. Six hours work. Dump fee $200. Additional man $150/man hour. AAA discount -$75. Option D, final answer.

 

[wytex]

I know in Wyoming it would have been astronomical.
Some states have been trying to rein in tow charges a bit.

Glad you all are ok and hope the rest of your trip goes without a hitch. Hard to have fun now but I hope you all can.

 

[Treeshark]

Going to take the over on this one, $12+.

 

[Deez Nutz]

hope the rest of your trip goes without a hitch.

 

[winmag]

Did insurance cover the towing and recovery? I found myself with a large tow bill last year when my transfer case blew up at the CO/NE state line. Towing a 3/4 ton truck back to Denver on a flat bed was over $1000. That type of towing wasn't expressly included in my policy but I submitted it to my insurance company anyway and they covered the entire thing.

 

[rjthehunter]

Glad everyone is okay. I'm guessing 6-8k. Nothing is cheap, ever.

 

[noharleyyet]

Glad everyone is okay. I'm guessing 6-8k. Nothing is cheap, ever.

12k+ is cheap considering the possibilities.

 

[FamilyMan]

Very happy to hear no one was hurt. Must have put a real damper on the vacation though. After hearing this it makes me glad I am not towing my trailer on upcoming 1800-mile road trip.

This was clearly an HD Silverado (can tell by counting the lug nuts in the third picture), so either a 3/4 Ton or a 1 Ton. Based on that, and depending on certain vehicle features and the total weight of passengers and gear in the truck, it can tow 17,000 pounds or more, so this trailer should not have been a problem.

“I even had my manual override on the trailer brakes maxed out but it still didn’t save it. Thankfully was down to probably 15 or 20 mph when it went over.” Manually maxing out the trailer break was the right move when a trailer gets to swaying, the theory (as I understand it) being that breaking more on the trailer than on the truck will cause the truck to “pull away” from the trailer, getting it back in line. But you also say that you were down to 15 or 20 mph, which makes me wonder if you were also standing on the truck brakes, which might cancel out the desired effect of breaking on the trailer. I’m no expert, but I just wonder.

Hope your trailer insurer treats you right.

FamilyMan

 

[sccritterkiller]

Out of state tags during the summer...you will be lucky if it's under 12k...

Glad no one was hurt.

 

[Addicting]

I have always wondered what the effect on weight distribution is on a toy hauler trailer when a heavy UTV or ATV is at the very rear of the trailer. It would seem that an up-force on the hitch could cause sway.

Can you address that concern?

I would have no idea.

 

[ashersdad]

Wow!! Glad it was just "stuff" that got hurt and not you or your family. I would have needed something stiffer than a Diet Coke after that experience...

 

[npaden]

Never have liked the bumper pull campers ive used...

What kind of stabilzing hitch?

It was a Recurve R6 hitch. I thought it was a novel idea with the weight distribution bars on the top instead of on the bottom. I wasn't ever super impressed with the hitch especially the sway control as that feature is handled through very large ball bearings instead of the normal friction based setups. Thinking it through it is possible that the way the bars are on the top of the hitch instead of the bottom might help explain why the truck didn't go over with the trailer. You can see in the original pictures that one of the weight distribution bars is still attached to the trailer.

Glad everyone is OK but sucks your vacation is ruined.

Vacation wasn't ruined, just changed some plans a bit. We were headed to Yellowstone Bible Camp and they made some changes to where we were able to stay in a cabin instead of our trailer. Bought an overpriced flat bed trailer in Sheridan and everything else went smoothly.

Glad everyone was OK and able to come away from that alive and safe. We had one camper that was always a challenge to pull due to sway no matter how I loaded it. One day I took it to the scales unloaded and loaded weighed each axel and the hitch. I found that the unloaded weight put the center of gravity behind the rear axel and loaded was less than ideal as well and basically had the trailer at the max rating for the axels. Not having that proper weight distribution in my case aided in sway. I built a new standalone subframe, upsized the axels and spread them out just 6" and slid them back little bit. I then welded that whole assembly under the trailer. From that day forward that trailer pulled great regardless of how it was loaded. I no longer needed sway control or weight distribution.

The RV industry does not do the consumer any favors when they spec the axels or place them. I know several folks who are putting sway control on 3-4K campers behind 2500 series trucks due to how the trailer pulls. It is very hard to find one that has proper weight distribution when loaded. Look at how many utility trailers on on the road with weights much higher than the weight of a typical camper with now sway control.

my guess was in the 8K range. I hope you were still able to enjoy your trip.

I'm thinking you hit the nail on the head here. This trailer had an enclosed garage at the very back of the trailer. 100% of the weight of the machines was behind the back axle. It had been pulling decently on this trip but I filled the fuel tank up in Casper and added a little over 100 pounds to the very back of the trailer when I did that. (26 gallon fuel tank at the very back of the trailer). I had been having issues with sway with this trailer and had been adding weight to the front as much as possible but didn't account for the added fuel with adding more weight to the front to offset it. You wouldn't think 100 extra pounds would matter but it did. I was under the max weight rating on the axles by about 2,000lbs but the axles needed to be a bit further back. I only owned this trailer about 18 months but was always struggling with getting it balanced correctly.

Damn ... Glad to hear no one was injured.

IMO, your trailer was heavier than your truck. Especially, since you're pulling a "toy hauler" w/ UTV in the back. The combination of a quarter-ton truck pulling a heavy load, the rough road conditions in the area (a lot of dips between MT State line and Crow Agency) probably contributed to the wreck.

What happens in trailer sway; is the trailer starts going faster than the vehicle pulling it and ultimately tries to pass the tow vehicle. Once the "sway" starts ... there is very little anyone can do to avoid a wreck.

My truck is a 2500HD diesel and weighs about 8,000 pounds. It is lighter than the trailer but not sure there are many 12,000 pound pickups out there. I 100% agree that the rough road was a factor in the accident. I hit a large dip right before going over a overpass type bridge that got the swaying started.

It’s a 3/4 ton truck and he was well within the tow rating of that vehicle. Can’t comment on load capacity seeing we don’t know the tongue weight.

I would gather that in the process of chasing his away issues he put too much load on the weight distribution hitch. That takes weight off the rear axle and can lift it in sway conditions verse help control it.

You might be onto something here. I have always used a weight distribution hitch but not sure that it really affects the tongue weight at all? It does move weight up to the front tires. One other factor that is in play is that I have added some RoadActive Suspension springs to help with squat. They are supposed to help with all kinds of towing type issues including sway but they didn't help me. Possibly the suspension springs and the weight distribution bars were acting against each other. I should have tried pulling it without the weight distribution setup to see how it did but didn't think of it soon enough.

I have always wondered what the effect on weight distribution is on a toy hauler trailer when a heavy UTV or ATV is at the very rear of the trailer. It would seem that an up-force on the hitch could cause sway.

Can you address that concern?

See comment above. The squirrel I was chasing at the time was that when I added the RoadActive Suspension Springs to the truck it essentially lifted it around 2". When pulling the trailer to Montana and back 2 months ago I had some sway issues and attributed it to the fact that the trailer tongue was 2" higher so I bought a new drop hitch that let me drop the trailer 2". That seemed to be working right up until it didn't.

Did insurance cover the towing and recovery? I found myself with a large tow bill last year when my transfer case blew up at the CO/NE state line. Towing a 3/4 ton truck back to Denver on a flat bed was over $1000. That type of towing wasn't expressly included in my policy but I submitted it to my insurance company anyway and they covered the entire thing.

Insurance is not going to cover anything. I didn't have the trailer separately insured but had always been told that it would be covered if you were pulling it with a personal vehicle for leisure purposes. I have always thought it might not be covered for property damage but thought that they would help with the cost to remove it but they aren't. Farmers insurance that I have been with for 20+ years.

Very happy to hear no one was hurt. Must have put a real damper on the vacation though. After hearing this it makes me glad I am not towing my trailer on upcoming 1800-mile road trip.

This was clearly an HD Silverado (can tell by counting the lug nuts in the third picture), so either a 3/4 Ton or a 1 Ton. Based on that, and depending on certain vehicle features and the total weight of passengers and gear in the truck, it can tow 17,000 pounds or more, so this trailer should not have been a problem.

“I even had my manual override on the trailer brakes maxed out but it still didn’t save it. Thankfully was down to probably 15 or 20 mph when it went over.” Manually maxing out the trailer break was the right move when a trailer gets to swaying, the theory (as I understand it) being that breaking more on the trailer than on the truck will cause the truck to “pull away” from the trailer, getting it back in line. But you also say that you were down to 15 or 20 mph, which makes me wonder if you were also standing on the truck brakes, which might cancel out the desired effect of breaking on the trailer. I’m no expert, but I just wonder.

Hope your trailer insurer treats you right.

FamilyMan

Not looking good on the insurance. The truck has some fancy bells and whistles that actually take over the braking of the vehicle and the trailer when it thinks it is in a sway condition. 2 months ago when I had something similar happen the truck actually took over the braking and throttle control and safely got the trailer under control all on it's own. I thought with my changes to the hitch and the 800+ safely driven miles on this trip that things were successfully sorted out but when it started swaying this time I was going downhill, around a corner and in the left lane so me and the fancy truck combined were not able to get it sorted. I've pulled 5 different travel trailer or toy hauler setups right around 100,000 miles and was probably a little overconfident. This episode has humbled me pretty good.

I think that gets a response for most of the questions that were posed. It has for sure been a learning experience, just wish it wasn't such an expensive one. We are truly blessed that it all went down with no injuries and we were able to safely drive the truck the rest of the trip with no issues.



Montana was great and the smoke actually cleared for a couple days while we were there. After sitting for a couple days at the tow yard the machines started right up with no smoke and ran fine the entire week. Got to see a bunch of pretty country.