Grizzly Incident Count

[antlerradar]

That is my logic as well.

There is not going to be a Grizzly Bear hunting season anytime soon. If a person can't see the political reality of that, they are wearing blinders. Could the population handle limited hunting, imo, yes. But there is so much more to it than that. I used to hold out hope that perhaps before my old age precluded it, there would be a season. I now think that a season is not happening anytime soon.

I hope that I'm never in the position of having to use a rifle to defend against a bear attack, but would do it, if it ever came to that. So far all of my bear encounters have been uneventful, but the next one might not be.

I lean more towards there is never going to be a Grizzily Bear season in Montana. Political reality.

 

[rjthehunter]

How many years have you lived in MT?

My apologies, I must have missed the part where I was required to live in MT to have an opinion?

You'll have to forgive the Minnesota grizzly bear expert.

You're absolutely right. When Montana had a season, not that long ago, it was managed the same way. Any human caused mortality was counted against the quota then as well. Back then, spilled corn on railroad tracks in NW Montana and the train hitting them was a big source of mortality.

That often took a bunch of the mortality quota.

Buzz, do you bump in to a lot of grizzlies in Laramie, WY?

I really don't care to have any form of conversation with you because you're impossible to talk to.

 

[rjthehunter]

A few individual deaths is not the issue, it is the aggregation of all human caused mortality that is the problem. I'll use the numbers from the NCDE Grizzly Bear Population Monitoring Team Annual Report from 2021 as I live and work within it and thus are more familiar with it than the GYE. This report projects 1,163 bears in the NCDE in 2023.

"Fifty-five known or probable grizzly bear mortalities were documented in the NCDE during 2021." A continuation of this trend with the addition of five or ten more females could jeopardize the population, state management efforts, and overall population effectiveness.

Based on the NCDE Subcommittee guidance, the maximum threshold for the number of independent female mortalities for 2021 was set at 24, and there were 18 documented total female mortalities of which 12 were independent bears. So maybe a little room on an annual basis.

Another threshold set by the subcommittee is that the annual survival rate for independent females must be at 0.93 or greater. "For the 6-year period 2016–2021, we estimated an annual survival rate of 0.93 (± 0.01 SE) for independent females within the DMA, which meets the minimum threshold rate of 0.93 (NCDE Subcommittee 2019)." And so the overall trend is a bit touchier with losses of independent females.

All of these mortalities from self defense, travel corridors, conflicts, etc. take away from potential hunting opportunities.

I couldn't find the 2023 numbers so thank you for sharing.

Is it logical to say that the handful of human caused mortality by self defense has very little impact on hunting opportunities? I'd have to imagine cars, trains, and problem bears are the majority of those mortalities.

 

[BuzzH]

My apologies, I must have missed the part where I was required to live in MT to have an opinion?



Buzz, do you bump in to a lot of grizzlies in Laramie, WY?

I really don't care to have any form of conversation with you because you're impossible to talk to.

Not in Laramie, just when I'm working, hunting, recreating in cody, dubois, black rock, yellowstone, grand Teton, winds, lander, pinedale, upper green, etc. all summer and fall. Have only bumped into a half dozen this year. Most likely bump into some more in Montana while deer hunting.

Bump into many in Minnesota?

 

[rjthehunter]

Not in Laramie, just when I'm working, hunting, recreating in cody, dubois, black rock, yellowstone, grand Teton, winds, lander, pinedale, upper green, etc. all summer and fall. Have only bumped into a half dozen this year. Most likely bump into some more in Montana while deer hunting.

Bump into many in Minnesota?

Believe it or not, I've spent plenty of time in MT, WY, & ID - in grizzly country. It's crazy that you travel too! It's almost like your opinion is just as invalid as mine apparently is because you live in Laramie... Because you can't logically travel up to grizz country in buzz's world right?

Want me to blow your mind? I was in MT less than a month ago, hunting in grizz country!

WOW - You're not the only one who can drive to an area that has grizzlies! I recreate and hunt in grizz country too. Get off your high horse.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

As far as the spray vs gun debate it really doesn't matter. I don't care if your Tristen Ludlow it don't matter. Be as prepared as possible and hope things fall in your favor. When one surprise attacks a human it might as well be a T-rex ur fighting.

 

[sapperJ24]

"Among 41 mortalities of independent bears, causes of death were: agency removal due to conflict (15); automobile collision (10); poaching/malicious kill (4); defense of life (3); illegal defense of property (2); accidental poisoning (1); agency removal due to injury (1); capture-related mortality (1); natural (1); and unknown or under investigation (3)."

Defense of life mortalities make up a small portion of overall deaths, but again, it is the total deaths due to humans which is the problem. Reduce overall mortalities (secure attractants, construct wildlife overpasses) and hunting may be possible one day. But trigger happy people looking for any excuse to smoke a bear are doing so at the detriment of potential delisting. In some instances these bear deaths may be preventable or avoidable.

Of course anyone can have an opinion, but the opinions of those who live in the area, choose to be informed, and interact with bears on a regular basis will carry more weight. Spending two weeks recreating in Montana does not equate to living with bears.

 

[Straight Arrow]

"Among 41 mortalities of independent bears, causes of death were: agency removal due to conflict (15); automobile collision (10); poaching/malicious kill (4); defense of life (3); illegal defense of property (2); accidental poisoning (1); agency removal due to injury (1); capture-related mortality (1); natural (1); and unknown or under investigation (3)."

Defense of life mortalities make up a small portion of overall deaths, but again, it is the total deaths due to humans which is the problem. Reduce overall mortalities (secure attractants, construct wildlife overpasses) and hunting may be possible once day. But trigger happy people looking for any excuse to smoke a bear are doing so at the detriment of potential delisting. In some instances these bear deaths may be preventable or avoidable.

Of course anyone can have an opinion, but the opinions of those who live in the area, choose to be informed, and interact with bears on a regular basis will carry more weight. Spending two weeks recreating in Montana does not equate to living with bears.

Those are great points!
As someone living and hunting in Montana lifelong and now no longer bow hunting in areas near Yellowstone, such as Taylor Fork or Sage Creek, and also avoiding the Gravelly Mountains, I don't fault others for hunting there, but do tire of the reluctance to be bear aware other than packing a big hogleg pistol. I carry bear spray mostly because it's much lighter and I don't want to be interrogated if there is a bear encounter. With grizzlies now found about anywhere across the state, it is a real dilemma for archery hunters who necessarily are stealthy, smelling like elk, and hunt some of the dense forests.

On trails and in dense brush and forest we are louder than yesteryears and likely much worse elk hunters, but either my smell or loud voice keeps them moving away from us.

 

[Bigjay73]

Well this thread is now ruined.

 

[BuzzH]

Believe it or not, I've spent plenty of time in MT, WY, & ID - in grizzly country. It's crazy that you travel too! It's almost like your opinion is just as invalid as mine apparently is because you live in Laramie... Because you can't logically travel up to grizz country in buzz's world right?

Want me to blow your mind? I was in MT less than a month ago, hunting in grizz country!

WOW - You're not the only one who can drive to an area that has grizzlies! I recreate and hunt in grizz country too. Get off your high horse.

View attachment 299035

If you want to compare notes, we can see who spends the most time around grizzlies.

I'll even spot you your travel days to Montana...you might of seen one out of the window of the truck.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Hunting season would be really cool, and I think it's ridiculous we don't have, but it won't solve the problem or affect it for several years if has any affect.

 

[bwanakubwa]

If you want to compare notes, we can see who spends the most time around grizzlies.

I'll even spot you your travel days to Montana...you might of seen one out of the window of the truck.

You really make this site suck.

 

[BuzzH]

Hunting season would be really cool, and I think it's ridiculous we don't have, but it won't solve the problem or affect it for several years if has any affect.

Agree, the only bears that learn to fear humans during a season are the ones that get killed by a bullet. They aren't talking to their grizzly bear buddies.

Also, nobody would waste their time hunting fringe areas with low bear densities mostly inhabited by young bears or sows with cubs.

I'd be hunting the biggest oldest boars in the highest density areas I could on a OIL tag like that in places like the North Fork of the Shoshone.

Who would want their OIL grizzly hunt taking place at the grease bin behind the DQ in Cody for a 2-3 year old cub?

 

[Bigjay73]

You really make this site suck.

Ignore button is your friend

 

[rjthehunter]

If you want to compare notes, we can see who spends the most time around grizzlies.

I'll even spot you your travel days to Montana...you might of seen one out of the window of the truck.

Good lord. A guy would die if he climbed up your ego and jumped down to your IQ...

 

[PaulRevere]

Good lord. A guy would die if he climbed up your ego and jumped down to your IQ...

Lol... you obviously have no clue who you are talking about.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

This has to be part of it. The bears that came to the Florence area last year immediately started sniffing around garbage cans and had to be preventatively relocated.

I think it's a combination of more bears + more people + less available habitat per bear + drought, blister rust, and whatever else is affecting their natural food supply. Obviously bears are nowhere near their historic population and never will be, so it's going to depend on bears and humans learning how to be neighbors, because we want to live and recreate in the same places and eat the same things. Montanans clearly haven't figured out how to do that yet. Seems maybe Alaskans have?

Coastal Alaskan brown bears and Rocky Mountain grizzly’s are far different species. But i do appreciate your sentiment here

 

[Hunter4Life78]

I think we should bring Alaskan Bears to Montana. Then we can hunt those and not the grizzlies..... just wanted to stir the pot and throw my own random ideas in here.

 

[antlerradar]

Lol... you obviously have no clue who you are talking about.

This is true, but it was still kind of funny

 

[rjthehunter]

Lol... you obviously have no clue who you are talking about.

I know what Buzz has done. It's just really unfortunate he has to be a condescending dick all the time.