Grizzly Expansion

[MaxPower]

This is REALLY far south for Grizzly Bears....

What do you all think? I'm on board with Wyoming (and Idaho and Montana) having Grizzly hunts, to maintain populations. I don't like the idea of grizzlies being restored to all of their former range. It's great having them in the Greater Yellowstone Area, but like Bison they carry logistical hazards that don't make them conducive to being restored everywhere they once were.

Grizzly Sighting Near Kemmerer is Furthest South Sighting in Over 50…

A verified grizzly bear sighting in the southern Wyoming range near Kemmerer indicates that efforts toward the recovery of grizzly bear populations in the…

cowboystatedaily.com

 

[JLS]

I’d be happy seeing them expand wherever they want to go.

 

[Ben Lamb]

What do you all think? I'm on board with Wyoming (and Idaho and Montana) having Grizzly hunts, to maintain populations. I don't like the idea of grizzlies being restored to all of their former range. It's great having them in the Greater Yellowstone Area, but like Bison they carry logistical hazards that don't make them conducive to being restored everywhere they once were.

Deer cost the American public roughly $1.1 billion per year in economic damages & kill roughly 200 people per year. We should severely limit the population of deer to protect people & property.

Right?

 

[MaxPower]

Deer cost the American public roughly $1.1 billion per year in economic damages & kill roughly 200 people per year. We should severely limit the population of deer to protect people & property.

Right?

If we limited it to just economic impact, deer/deer hunting also generate billions of dollars a year. I don't know how much money grizzlies generate in the lower 48, it'd be interesting to see if someone has a link to a study on that.

 

[Sytes]

Happy to see them go where they travel... Naturally... Agree. With States able to manage population numbers.

Reminds me of this thread... A great value for State Councils to define / develop a vision for the future of grizzlies once we step over the environmentalist's extreme opposition of State Management.

Grizzly Bear Advisory Council - Public Comments

http://fwp.mt.gov/fishAndWildlife/manag ... ments.html The Governor Steve Bullock of Montana assembled a Grizzly Bear Advisory Council a while back. These folks have meetings across the state, and they invite the public to attend and have their say in how they feel grizzly bears in Montana...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[Ben Lamb]

If we limited it to just economic impact, deer/deer hunting also generate billions of dollars a year. I don't know how much money grizzlies generate in the lower 48, it'd be interesting to see if someone has a link to a study on that.

Wildlife watching would count towards this, so think hundreds of millions of dollars. Glacier & Yellowstone would dwarf impacts to Ag.

 

[MTGomer]

I’m such a supporter of their expansion that I support the limited hunting of the biggest natural killer of grizzly bear cubs.
That would be grizzly bear boars.

 

[LopeHunter]

Wildlife watching would count towards this, so think hundreds of millions of dollars. Glacier & Yellowstone would dwarf impacts to Ag.

If every grizzly bear vanished tomorrow, are you implying no one would spend money to wildlife view? Yellowstone viewing would shrivel up? One could argue that wildlife viewing expenditures would rise if alpha predators were removed. The existence of alpha predators reduces the number of hikers and campers that venture into grizzly habitat. Well, my wife refuses to get out of the car in Glacier or Yellowstone. Heck, I know hunters that specifically avoid grizzly habitat and they go on hunts armed with a weapon or two and likely would carry bear spray as well.

Our world is a better place with wildlife diversity but few of us volunteer to have our property be used when rattlesnakes are re-introduced or grizzly bears or cougars. Limiting the protection of grizzly bears to a specific zone is a reasonable approach just as we limit black bears that might wander onto a school yard or downtown park.

 

[wytex]

That is the first verified by G&F sighting, they have been wandering through that region for many years.

 

[Dave N]

Deer cost the American public roughly $1.1 billion per year in economic damages & kill roughly 200 people per year. We should severely limit the population of deer to protect people & property.

Right?

I try what I can, but I'm JUST ONE GUY!

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Over under on threads about this exact same thing? So far I think we're at 3.

 

[Sytes]

And the same people post...

 

[Schaaf]

U.S. NEWS Betsy DeVos Cites Grizzly Bears During Guns-in-Schools Debate

Think of the children.

 

[JLS]

U.S. NEWS Betsy DeVos Cites Grizzly Bears During Guns-in-Schools Debate

Think of the children.

Absolutely.

 

[brymoore]

I’m pro grizzly natural expansion. My kids or grandkids might see them around my house someday.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If every grizzly bear vanished tomorrow, are you implying no one would spend money to wildlife view? Yellowstone viewing would shrivel up? One could argue that wildlife viewing expenditures would rise if alpha predators were removed. The existence of alpha predators reduces the number of hikers and campers that venture into grizzly habitat. Well, my wife refuses to get out of the car in Glacier or Yellowstone. Heck, I know hunters that specifically avoid grizzly habitat and they go on hunts armed with a weapon or two and likely would carry bear spray as well.

Our world is a better place with wildlife diversity but few of us volunteer to have our property be used when rattlesnakes are re-introduced or grizzly bears or cougars. Limiting the protection of grizzly bears to a specific zone is a reasonable approach just as we limit black bears that might wander onto a school yard or downtown park.

If every deer were to vanish tomorrow, would hunting die? There would still be millions of ducks, geese, grouse, elk, etc that would still be available, and in fact, elk numbers would likely rise even more due to a lack of competition.

Yes, you would see loss of visitation. There are hundreds of thousands of people who stay longer in the parks to look for wolves & bears. W/o those, they don't stay as long, creating less revenue for gateway communities. Entire companies would go under that specialize in Grizz & wolf watching, fewer optics sold from those who don't care to watch only ungulates ruminate on the over-grazed plains of Yellowstone., etc.

The second part of your post is the interesting part. I totally agree with it. We shouldn't entertain grizz in urban environments, or even in ex-urban ones unless that's something folks want. But that's not what the OP was on about.

Grizzly bears are expanding their range. They meet most of the criteria for delisting in the GYE and NCDE. The key is connectivity and genetic diversity. That means to a certain extent that populations need to have some kind of connectivity and ability to expand populations in order to meet the requirements of the ESA as well as the genetic diversity needs of the species. That a bear was around Kemmerer, or that there are denning bears around Loma, MT is a good thing. It shows that the genetic diversity is there, and that populations support enough dispersing animals to allow for this kind of expansion.

And while grizzlies have their own set of problems, they also have their own set of solutions - whether that's compensation for loss or funds for mitigation before loss occur.

The idea that we restrict grizzly bears to less than what the science calls for in terms of maintaining genetic diversity is where we fall down. I'm all for a hunting season, and I'm all for delisting, when the appropriate criteria are met at the state and federal levels. The idea that we keep a species at such a low number that they perpetually face a crisis if one thing goes wrong because of our lack of comfort with them is how we ended up with a listing in the first place. Everybody is afraid of the monster with the largest teeth & claws, even though you are more likely to die from a deer than a grizzly.

 

[MTLabrador]

I really do wish we had them in more places. I’m planning a trip to one of the most grizzly populated parts of Wyoming for the last weekend of bear season. A guy was mauled in the area not long ago, but I don’t plan on fearing for my life the whole time I’m out there. Spending time in wild country with the big scary bears can be very therapeutic, especially with everything crazy going on in our country right now.

 

[MTLabrador]

The existence of alpha predators reduces the number of hikers and campers that venture into grizzly habitat. Well, my wife refuses to get out of the car in Glacier or Yellowstone. Heck, I know hunters that specifically avoid grizzly habitat and they go on hunts armed with a weapon or two and likely would carry bear spray as well.

That’s one of the reasons I like those bears so much.

 

[JEL]

One was spotted 10 miles south of Rudyard MT recently which is quite a ways from the RM Front and in dryland grain country. It is also the town I grew up in. Our farm is north of town. It is crazy to think we have griz expanding into our neck of the woods (plains). Never even crossed my mind that we would ever have them. It will definitely add a twist to life on the farm for my son.

 

[JLS]

One was spotted 10 miles south of Rudyard MT recently which is quite a ways from the RM Front and in dryland grain country. It is also the town I grew up in. Our farm is north of town. It is crazy to think we have griz expanding into our neck of the woods (plains). Never even crossed my mind that we would ever have them. It will definitely add a twist to life on the farm for my son.

The amount of good bear habitat down the Marias and Milk Rivers is amazing.