BigHornRam
Well-known member
Good point Matt. Maybe we should follow your brother's advice and gut shoot em.
Good News for Arizona!!
- Thread starter danr55
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Washington Hunter
Well-known member
BigHornRam said:
Is that what you prefer to do Matt???
FAIRCHASEBEN
New member
Anytime you remove man , as a predator , from the equation you upset the balance of nature . Man has evovled with the Mt. Lions and we've always competed for food with them and worn their fur , so we've always hunted them . The last time I bowhunted in California I saw more Mt. Lion tracks than Deer tracks , and this was in a prime muley unit x-5b . We found cat tracks one morning in the road next to our camp ! They have lost all fear of man in California and we only hear about a fraction of the Lion incidents that occur . The uninformed , mislead voters in California have traded their Deer herds for Lions and now they don't see either one . It's no wonder why the sensible people are moving out of California in droves and the looney-tunes are taking over .
Where are you going to retire to Marv ?
Where are you going to retire to Marv ?
bhr- wh- I tend to not break the law. It saves time, money and a guilty conscience. JMO. I also don't like to see any animal suffer, I attempt clean kills with every shot although it doesn't always happen that way.
The mountain lions I have seen are pretty impressive. I do realize they can be troublesome though. They are very effective killers.
The mountain lions I have seen are pretty impressive. I do realize they can be troublesome though. They are very effective killers.
AZ402
Well-known member
MattK is cool.........
FAIRCHASEBEN
New member
Good for you Matt , have your mommy sew another merit badge on your pocket .MattK said:
It sounds like there are a lot of people on this board who need to learn some more about supply and demand economics. As supply decreases and/or demand increases, the price of a commodity always goes up. When supply exceeds demand, the price of a commodity goes down. It's basic capitalism/economics. When we have more sheep or goats or elk or moose or antelope than people who want to hunt them, then the price of the hunts goes down. Until that time, I believe the term "escalation" fits the expected cost of a tag quite well.
FCB- Obviously, you believe in fair chase and poach like hell? Yeah, you're a real civic minded individual. If you want to affect change in hunting sheep or mt. lion, go through the process correctly. Prove your points based on verifiable evidence. The California Fish and Game must feel the need for no mt lion season. If you feel there should be, you can start by writing to them.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Writing to Fish & Game??? What good is that going to do when all decisions are made by the voters of the state?
What good is that going to do when all decisions are made by the voters of the state?WH- The restrictions on hunting usually aren't voted on by the state electorate, at least I have never voted on quotas, restrictions, etc. for hunting in Montana. Have you for Washington? It may be necessary to find out from the f&g why the restrictions are there to begin with.
FAIRCHASEBEN
New member
Matt ,
The California F&G supported and endorsed the attempt to overturn the ban on Mt. Lion hunting a couple years ago but the bill was defeated by the bleeding heart liberals by using false data and dishonest campaign retoric , including video footage of a treed cat being shot by an outfitter in Idaho , that they hired themselves !!!!
In other words ; you don't know wtf you're talking about so go to the ladies forum and talk about knitting or something and let the men discuss this .....
And if you ever accuse me of poaching again you'd better find a rock to crawl under , the state of Montana will become too small for you to hide !
The California F&G supported and endorsed the attempt to overturn the ban on Mt. Lion hunting a couple years ago but the bill was defeated by the bleeding heart liberals by using false data and dishonest campaign retoric , including video footage of a treed cat being shot by an outfitter in Idaho , that they hired themselves !!!!
In other words ; you don't know wtf you're talking about so go to the ladies forum and talk about knitting or something and let the men discuss this .....
And if you ever accuse me of poaching again you'd better find a rock to crawl under , the state of Montana will become too small for you to hide !
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Matt, yes I have voted on wildlife management issues in Washington. A few years back I voted against an initiative to ban hunting bears with bait, and hunting bears/cougars/bobcats with hounds. Of course, with the majority of the people in the state not having a clue about wildlife management, most people voted for it. Pretty much the same thing that happened in California (and Oregon.) I'm surprised you weren't aware of it.
WH- I have never voted for anything other than saying hunting is part of the state's heritage. Other items I've voted on was the Game Farm issue. (at least that I can remember). I have looked up California Mountain lion and see that the original moratorium was placed on Mountain lion hunting by then Governor Ronald Reagan. It seems the numbers were approx. 600 for the state. 15 years later their distinction was changed to protected. It will either need an initiative by the people, changed distinction in the courts (which has been shot down), or a 4/5 vote by the legislature. None of which has come real close to happening. In this case it is a special distinction placed upon the mountain lion.
FCB- I never called you a poacher. I asked a question. My question was based on your comment (sewing the badge on the pocket). If you feel a person needs a merit badge when he doesn't poach, you must think the standard would be poaching (not poaching deserves a badge). So, tell me FCB- do you deserve a badge?
FCB- I never called you a poacher. I asked a question. My question was based on your comment (sewing the badge on the pocket). If you feel a person needs a merit badge when he doesn't poach, you must think the standard would be poaching (not poaching deserves a badge). So, tell me FCB- do you deserve a badge?
I wonder why the accusers of false hoods seem to continually find themselves back tracking and explaining their actions, left wing tactics being used here don't work because non of us that I know of are politicians...
Dan is absolutely right....
When F&G starts to lose to much money because people aren't buying the amount of tags it takes to run the program, things will change.
Dan is absolutely right....
When F&G starts to lose to much money because people aren't buying the amount of tags it takes to run the program, things will change.
LMAO Matt...
You are a sensitive creature now aren't you...
I mentioned no names to protect the innocent...
Matter of fact, I didn't even have you on my mind as I was putting the last post up...
You must be guilty of some thing to be so quick to react... Whats with that???
I guess I will accuse you of the same thing... Now do you feel better???
You are an odd duck... An odd duck indeed...
You are a sensitive creature now aren't you...
I mentioned no names to protect the innocent...
Matter of fact, I didn't even have you on my mind as I was putting the last post up...
You must be guilty of some thing to be so quick to react... Whats with that???
I guess I will accuse you of the same thing... Now do you feel better???
You are an odd duck... An odd duck indeed...
MarvB
Well-known member
Not to hijack the AZ thread but..some additional info for MattK-
I believe (not that I wholeheartedly agree with the practice) that CA was still offering a bounty on lions as late as the 1950’s. Mt. Lions became classified as a “game mammal” in this state in 1969 but Reagan signed a moratorium against hunting of lions in 1971. According to the DFG website the “600” cat population you mentioned was a 1920 estimate, not one of modern times and even then with past "technology" and the nature of the animal I am very suspecious of how that number is/was determined. Current populations are estimated between 4,000-6,000 (again more than the bighorn sheep population that we are allowed (limited) to hunt and the lions are allowed to decimate).
Reagan’s moratorium on hunting was set to “expire” in 1985 but when the California Department of Fish and Game (DFG) tried to open a lion hunting season, citizen groups blocked the hunt in court, where a judge held that the department had not adequately assessed the lion population before deciding that there were huntable numbers.
Proposition 117, permanently (until “possible” repeal) banned the hunting of mountain lions in California and was passed by the voters (read as the City folks) in June of 1990. Funny that in 1994, 122 mountain lions were killed under the depredation permits issued by the DFG due to “growing populations” and their encroachment into urban areas.
Proposition 197 was backed by most sporting groups and the Fish & Game to reverse 117 and again allow a limited amount of hunting. It was defeated in March 1996 as it required a 2/3 vote to repeal a law that only required a simple majority to pass.
As a "special protected mammal" the lion is now the only form of wildlife that is protected by the state of California that is neither threatened or endangered…go figure.
As I’ve said on this forum in the past, (primarily in regards to deer quotas, seasons, doe hunts, etc.) why for Cripes sake does this silly ass state even have a Dept. of Fish & Game when the let the citizenry vote/overturn the suggestions of paid professional wildlife biologists? Joe the banker and Bob the hardware store owner on the County Board of Supervisors and may not know the difference between a mountain lion and a mountain goat have more say here on wildlife issues than the paid professionals…IMHO its plain fuggin wrong!
...I probably should have put this in the lion hunting thread....
I believe (not that I wholeheartedly agree with the practice) that CA was still offering a bounty on lions as late as the 1950’s. Mt. Lions became classified as a “game mammal” in this state in 1969 but Reagan signed a moratorium against hunting of lions in 1971. According to the DFG website the “600” cat population you mentioned was a 1920 estimate, not one of modern times and even then with past "technology" and the nature of the animal I am very suspecious of how that number is/was determined. Current populations are estimated between 4,000-6,000 (again more than the bighorn sheep population that we are allowed (limited) to hunt and the lions are allowed to decimate).
Reagan’s moratorium on hunting was set to “expire” in 1985 but when the California Department of Fish and Game (DFG) tried to open a lion hunting season, citizen groups blocked the hunt in court, where a judge held that the department had not adequately assessed the lion population before deciding that there were huntable numbers.
Proposition 117, permanently (until “possible” repeal) banned the hunting of mountain lions in California and was passed by the voters (read as the City folks) in June of 1990. Funny that in 1994, 122 mountain lions were killed under the depredation permits issued by the DFG due to “growing populations” and their encroachment into urban areas.
Proposition 197 was backed by most sporting groups and the Fish & Game to reverse 117 and again allow a limited amount of hunting. It was defeated in March 1996 as it required a 2/3 vote to repeal a law that only required a simple majority to pass.
As a "special protected mammal" the lion is now the only form of wildlife that is protected by the state of California that is neither threatened or endangered…go figure.
As I’ve said on this forum in the past, (primarily in regards to deer quotas, seasons, doe hunts, etc.) why for Cripes sake does this silly ass state even have a Dept. of Fish & Game when the let the citizenry vote/overturn the suggestions of paid professional wildlife biologists? Joe the banker and Bob the hardware store owner on the County Board of Supervisors and may not know the difference between a mountain lion and a mountain goat have more say here on wildlife issues than the paid professionals…IMHO its plain fuggin wrong!
...I probably should have put this in the lion hunting thread....
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