Glen Canyon

[OriginalOscar]

Interesting article (1st of a series) in the SL Tribune here. It says subscribers only, but I, a non subscriber, was able to read it.

It says 68% of diverted water in Utah goes to alfalfa and hay production. Of that production, 29% is shipped overseas.

This is what SL-Trib would like to say - "Damn rural people! Living on the land, producing commodities and cash to provide for others and their families. If they would move to cities, the land could be sold; developed for more housing and we could use the water for new residents! Hopefully more liberal refugees dreaming of living in the rural west."

Utah's population 1920 was 450K with extensive agriculture. Utah's population 2020 3.3M with little agriculture remaining. Agriculture is not the problem and SL-Trib is not news!

 

[marksjeep]

Similarly aligned article, I don't recall seeing it posted but would be surprised if it hadn't been.
https://www.hcn.org/articles/landline-the-colorado-rivers-alfalfa-problem

It's interesting, and has many analogs to the discussions on here about wildlife, the NAM, and privatization. Water is also a public resource. I think most would agree with that. However, what most of these articles and much of the media fail to convey, is that water rights are often considered real property. They certainly are in Colorado and Utah; and can be bought, sold, and traded as such. I guess that is where the analog differs (at least for now and only to a certain degree), in that the "privatization" of water occurred over the past century as many of the senior rights were perfected.

The HCN article above concludes with this:
Industrial-scale farmers are currently growing and irrigating some 85,000 acres of alfalfa in California’s Imperial Valley. Cover all of that land with solar panels instead, and you’d save desert land from industrialization, generate enough power to replace Glen Canyon Dam’s hydroelectricity output several times over — and maybe even stave off the Colorado River’s collapse.

How is covering "all that land with solar panels instead" not "industrialization" in and of itself. Ugh. Maybe I missed the sarcasm emoji in the article or need more coffee.

 

[BigHornRam]

Maybe this irrigation technology proves itself, and we can conserve more water in dry areas, while continuing to grow crops to feed an ever expanding population? Maybe population growth in desert metro areas like Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Salt Lake City need to be curbed?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[ammo]

Man in the Can

With Lake Mead drying up due to drought and climate change, the famous desert reservoir is revealing grisly secrets from the past, including the remains of people thought to be victims of Las Vegas foul play. Mark Sundeen hits Nevada for a freewheeling exploration of dark deeds, a rapidly...

www.outsideonline.com

 

[Oak]

This is what SL-Trib would like to say - "Damn rural people! Living on the land, producing commodities and cash to provide for others and their families. If they would move to cities, the land could be sold; developed for more housing and we could use the water for new residents! Hopefully more liberal refugees dreaming of living in the rural west."

Utah's population 1920 was 450K with extensive agriculture. Utah's population 2020 3.3M with little agriculture remaining. Agriculture is not the problem and SL-Trib is not news!

Ah, you didn't read the article.

 

[TOGIE]

Interesting article (1st of a series) in the SL Tribune here. It says subscribers only, but I, a non subscriber, was able to read it.

It says 68% of diverted water in Utah goes to alfalfa and hay production. Of that production, 29% is shipped overseas.

quote that stood out to me:

In fact, using less puts their water rights at risk under Utah water law.

“You have to prove that you have been using your water, even if you own the water rights,” Reese says. “If you’re not pulling out the water, if you’re not using it, the state will come in and take it to someone else, so most agriculturalists will always use all of their water.”

i don't know about utah water law specifically, but in colorado the concept of "use it or lose it" is really poorly understood by the general public and basically every irrigator out here. that fact that it's such an impediment to conservation efforts in farming is unfortunate.

 

[BigHornRam]

Ah, you didn't read the article.

I'll give the Tribune some credit. Deep in the article they did a good job of trying to educate the urban readers why alfalfa is such an important crop for the rural water users. Most of the readers likely made it to the part you quoted and that was their only takeaway.

 

[Oak]

I'll give the Tribune some credit. Deep in the article they did a good job of trying to educate the urban readers why alfalfa is such an important crop for the rural water users. Most of the readers likely made it to the part you quoted and that was their only takeaway.

Or maybe you just read it with some bias. Here are some quotes:

The sub-title of the article

Hay and alfalfa feed beef and dairy production and support rural life, but together, they soak up two-thirds of Utah’s water.

Paragraph 8

The Reeses are among the state’s 9,300 family hay-growing operations, which consume most of Utah’s water resources. Alfalfa and other types of hay are by far Utah’s most valuable agricultural crop, worth nearly half a billion dollars last year.

Paragraph 9

The 2.4 million tons of annual hay the state produces plays a vital role supporting Utah’s agricultural economy, especially ranchers and dairies, but it comes at a price, experts say.

Etc., Etc. You get the point. The article states a lot of statistics (facts) in laying out the issue, which can be uncomfortable. I think it does a good job of explaining the importance of alfalfa production, as well as how existing water law makes it difficult to find creative solutions that keep farmers whole while reducing ag. water consumption. In the end, it's 9,300 families using 68% of the water in a state of 3.4 million people, resulting in 0.2% of the state's GDP. I think it behooves everyone to take a hard look at the part I bolded 2 sentences above and start finding solutions.

 

[Oak]

Experience

experience.arcgis.com

I was hoping this provided statistics on agricultural water use for all of the Compact states.

 

[TOGIE]

I was hoping this provided statistics on agricultural water use for all of the Compact states.

might be some of the info you're looking for on this page: http://www.ucrcommission.com/reports-studies/

not sure where some good basin wide info would be.

you looking for compact states in their entirety? or just ag within each state that falls within the basin? or all ag that receives water from the basin? stats will vary quite a bit between each.

 

[Oak]

might be some of the info you're looking for on this page: http://www.ucrcommission.com/reports-studies/

not sure where some good basin wide info would be.

you looking for compact states in their entirety? or just ag within each state that falls within the basin? or all ag that receives water from the basin? stats will vary quite a bit between each.

Thanks. This is a rabbit hole I really can't go down toda....in 2022. Maybe next year.

 

[TOGIE]

Thanks. This is a rabbit hole I really can't go down toda....in 2022. Maybe next year.

at least in the big scheme of things if you do a quick look at each state it generally rings true for each one in the west that approximately 80% of a states water supply ends up on an ag field.

 

[TOGIE]

then you look at things like Weld County Colorado, top 10 ag producer in the united states. outside of the colorado river basin, yet irrigated with a not insignificant portion of colorado river water.

 

[44hunter45]

quote that stood out to me:

In fact, using less puts their water rights at risk under Utah water law.

“You have to prove that you have been using your water, even if you own the water rights,” Reese says. “If you’re not pulling out the water, if you’re not using it, the state will come in and take it to someone else, so most agriculturalists will always use all of their water.”

i don't know about utah water law specifically, but in colorado the concept of "use it or lose it" is really poorly understood by the general public and basically every irrigator out here. that fact that it's such an impediment to conservation efforts in farming is unfortunate.

duckboy.com - duckboy Resources and Information.

duckboy.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, duckboy.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

www.duckboy.com

 

[TOGIE]

duckboy.com - duckboy Resources and Information.

duckboy.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, duckboy.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

www.duckboy.com

a dollar???

what's the TLDR of that?

water rights abandonment/"use it or lose it" and its exact intricacies are going to be state specific. but, in colorado there is a lot more nuance to the issue than the average farmer realizes.

the idea that the state is going to come in and just take away your water right if you don't divert it in it's entirety is simply untrue. for starters it would be a violation/overreach of the government per the state constition. abandonment is a very tedious process that involves most importantly intent. it involves the courts and periods for rebuttal. but that's colorado specific. the nuances of the statutes themselves regarding abandonment are relatively extensive.

now, i'm not familiar with the intricacies of utah water law, but I suspect it's similarly not as cut and dry as the quote from the tribune article would lead people to believe.

my point overall is this: "use it or lose it" as an excuse to not move towards better conservation efforts on a farm is a bullchit excuse. mostly because it's misunderstood and as it is stated in the tribune article is not typically how abandonment doctrines work. it's a problem that requires education to fix. education for a segment of the population that tends to be more untrustworthy of the government than the rest. it's unfortunate.

 

[OriginalOscar]

Ah, you didn't read the article.

Only been reading SL-Trib 50 years and watched them degrade into biased liberal rag with circulation less than 2% Utahns.

 

[Irrelevant]

Came across this recently and provided a link in the Drought for the West thread, but those it was equally as applicable to the CO River levels.

The California Drought is Over. Definitively.

This blog provides updated forecasts and comments on current weather or other topics

cliffmass.blogspot.com

 

[TOGIE]

Came across this recently and provided a link in the Drought for the West thread, but those it was equally as applicable to the CO River levels.

The California Drought is Over. Definitively.

This blog provides updated forecasts and comments on current weather or other topics

cliffmass.blogspot.com

View attachment 263288

Lake Mead inflow can be deceiving because Lake Powell release is what keeps it's consistent through compact compliance at Lees Ferry. Historical annual inflows to Powell do tell a bit of a different story.

It's still a lower basin over use mass balance problem regardless. But true inflow to the system as a whole really starts at Lake Powell.

 

[Irrelevant]

Lake Mead inflow can be deceiving because Lake Powell release is what keeps it's consistent through compact compliance at Lees Ferry. Historical annual inflows to Powell do tell a bit of a different story.

It's still a lower basin over use mass balance problem regardless. But true inflow to the system as a whole really starts at Lake Powell.

View attachment 263296

Great point that I didn't think about. Not many contributions between those two.

 

[Irrelevant]

Completely non-scientific yet worthwhile.

Glen Canyon revealed - High Country News

What comes next for Lake Powell?

www.hcn.org