shrapnel
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2015
- Messages
- 2,546
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I would have to disagree with you on the slavery being the reason. Most confederate soldiers never owned a slave. They fought because they were invaded by a tyrannical government mainly Lincoln. Remember it was not against the united states' declaration to secede. That's why after the war they were all paroled and given amnesty. Many former Confederates held federal jobs and government positions after the war. Anyone who say's confederates we're traitors as I've read in other post's absolutely no nothing about what they are talking about. Taxes on cotton and the unfair election of Lincoln is what caused the war. Slavery became a biproduct mainly for Lincoln's re election. Sometimes bad things eventually produce something good as in the civil war.As I continue to visit Civil War battlefields and museums, it is clear that the Civil War was about slavery. What little history I paid attention to in school didn’t support that premise…
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Reread what he wrote, you missed his point by a mile.I would have to disagree with you on the slavery being the reason. Most confederate soldiers never owned a slave. They fought because they were invaded by a tyrannical government mainly Lincoln. Remember it was not against the united states' declaration to secede. That's why after the war they were all paroled and given amnesty. Many former Confederates held federal jobs and government positions after the war. Anyone who say's confederates we're traitors as I've read in other post's absolutely no nothing about what they are talking about. Taxes on cotton and the unfair election of Lincoln is what caused the war. Slavery became a biproduct mainly for Lincoln's re election. Sometimes bad things eventually produce something good as in the civil war.
I really feel that is a strong statement and being of a much younger generation I can only know from what I've read and heard about what it was like during the time of WWII and shortly there afterwards. Perhaps it is this togetherness and unification as a nation that makes those of that time (generation) the "greatest".He and all those people passed on an America that was never stronger or more unified.
Simply embarrassing that the ridiculous narrative spun by the "Lost Cause" folks still holds in the minds of some Americans. A few excerpts from the Confederate states ordinances/articles of succession may serve as a good reminder from their own mouths:I would have to disagree with you on the slavery being the reason. Most confederate soldiers never owned a slave. They fought because they were invaded by a tyrannical government mainly Lincoln. Remember it was not against the united states' declaration to secede. That's why after the war they were all paroled and given amnesty. Many former Confederates held federal jobs and government positions after the war. Anyone who say's confederates we're traitors as I've read in other post's absolutely no nothing about what they are talking about. Taxes on cotton and the unfair election of Lincoln is what caused the war. Slavery became a biproduct mainly for Lincoln's re election. Sometimes bad things eventually produce something good as in the civil war.
Very well said. Those of us that had parents that lived through the Great Depression and the hardships they went though, believe that was the Greatest Generation.with no expectation of a return on their investment…
I have no interest in the concept of inherited culpability. Whatever my great great grandfather did or did not do in Norway has nothing to do with me, that's all on him. But in turn, those alive today are responsible for their own educated understanding of history. No need to pretend about actions of the past to make us feel better about ourselves today. So, along the lines of this thread -- a confederate officer in 1863 can be a traitor -- and a vinyl siding salesman in Atlanta in 2024 can be a patriotic American -- no need for whitewashing the traitor of 1863.The notion that we southerners should feel guilty is a foolish as any northerner appropriating moral superiority.
I agree with you on the concept of inherited culpability. I disagree with you that the officer was a traitor.I have no interest in the concept of inherited culpability. Whatever my great great grandfather did or did not do in Norway has nothing to do with me, that's all on him. But in turn, those alive today are responsible for their own educated understanding of history. No need to pretend about actions of the past to make us feel better about ourselves today. So, along the lines of this thread -- a confederate officer in 1863 can be a traitor -- and a vinyl siding salesman in Atlanta in 2024 can be a patriotic American -- no need for whitewashing the traitor of 1863.
...now we are but debating the size of the brush counselorI have no interest in the concept of inherited culpability. Whatever my great great grandfather did or did not do in Norway has nothing to do with me, that's all on him. But in turn, those alive today are responsible for their own educated understanding of history. No need to pretend about actions of the past to make us feel better about ourselves today. So, along the lines of this thread -- a confederate officer in 1863 can be a traitor -- and a vinyl siding salesman in Atlanta in 2024 can be a patriotic American -- no need for whitewashing the traitor of 1863.
Exactly, so let us dispense with the northerners and southerner labels.The notion that we southerners should feel guilty is as foolish as any northerner appropriating moral superiority.
Then why the need for Tennessean President Johnson to pardon them in 1868 -- from the pardon -- "a full pardon and amnesty for the offense of treason against the United States".I agree with you on the concept of inherited culpability. I disagree with you that the officer was a traitor.
Nope - just rejecting the unnecessary layer of varnish....now we are but debating the size of the brush counselor
ah, the pungent smell of intransigence in the morning. Sorry my esteemed friend, you're simply wrong.Nope - just rejecting the unnecessary layer of varnish.
Yea, sort of my point Brent.Exactly, so let us dispense with the northerners and southerner labels.
Simply wrong that General Lee violated his oath to, "bear true allegiant to the United States of America"? Please do educate this apparently clueless Norwegian immigrant.ah, the pungent smell of intransigence in the morning. Sorry my esteemed friend, you're simply wrong.
To the victors go the spoilsThen why the need for Tennessean President Johnson to pardon them in 1868 -- from the pardon -- "a full pardon and amnesty for the offense of treason against the United States".
Why? Because while there was much treasonous behavior, we couldn't imprison tens of thousands of men on the heels of the national disaster. So, we agreed to move on.
And Union Gen. George Thomas accurately predicted the future in 1868: “The crime of treason might be covered with a counterfeit varnish of patriotism, so that the precipitators of the rebellion might go down in history hand-in-hand with the defenders of the (US) Government."
While I support the pragmatism of the pardon, I reject the "counterfeit varnish".
Your words, not mine...let the paint dry and step out of your cornerSimply wrong that General Lee violated his oath to, "bear true allegiant to the United States of America"? Please do educate this apparently clueless Norwegian immigrant.